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 Post subject: Walter Tull
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:53 pm 
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Great to read on club website that 3 academy lads were brought in to teach Traore and Coady about Walter Tull, but 2 questions:
1. how on earth did the players not know of this inspirational guy? (Or is it just that he has a higher profile in Northampton?)
2. who on earth wrote the claimed 'quote from Adama Traore'? Having heard the guy speak, there is absolutely no way he would have said this, and in this way. Bizarre! Come on PR team - at least make him sound credible!

Tull, by the way, was a professional footballer and header of Northampton Town at start of 20th century. Even though 'only true Englishmen can become officers', he was so inspirational that he became the very first black officer in the British army. He was killed just before the end of the war.

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 Post subject: Re: Walter Tull
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:39 pm 
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More a Jethro Tull man myself, a true pioneer of the agricultural revolution.

My great grandfather was designated a key worker but his five brothers all went to the Western front, some of them quite enjoyed it so I have never been one to embrace the mawkishness of Remembrance Day. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdY-1u-rk_M

Peter Jackson's new film on WWI looks good, most of the time the troops are laughing and joking about, don't think fellas who wrote poetry, or marxist agitators, were any more representative of people then than they are now.

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 Post subject: Re: Walter Tull
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:42 pm 
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Sorry BBW, but I think you grossly underestimate the sheer horror that many many faced. True that away from the front lines, black humour will of course have prevailed. But you cannot surely think that a few laughs in any way minimises the scale of the misery of that war for so many. Millions and millions dead. Many thousands more gassed and - even if they survived, like my grandad in Wolverhampton - lungs wrecked for the rest of their wheezing lives, and many more with shattered bodies and minds.

I for one will not accept the picture you seem to imply.

Am waiting to see the Peter Jackson film. Mark Kermode & others say it is fantastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Walter Tull
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:10 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Sorry BBW, but I think you grossly underestimate the sheer horror that many many faced. True that away from the front lines, black humour will of course have prevailed. But you cannot surely think that a few laughs in any way minimises the scale of the misery of that war for so many. Millions and millions dead. Many thousands more gassed and - even if they survived, like my grandad in Wolverhampton - lungs wrecked for the rest of their wheezing lives, and many more with shattered bodies and minds.

I for one will not accept the picture you seem to imply.

Am waiting to see the Peter Jackson film. Mark Kermode & others say it is fantastic.

Well said.

I find it disturbing to discover that people think like that. I'm sure that those who witnessed the horrors of mutilation, phosgene, mustard gas and shell shock...notwithstanding being rescued from a sunken ship wouldn't have come back laughing that it was a jolly good jaunt. Just because the forces would have found time to laugh and joke it didn't mean that it was a load of fun.

My granddad said that he'd killed seven Germans and it was on his conscience for the rest of his life.

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 Post subject: Re: Walter Tull
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:47 am 
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SELWolf wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Sorry BBW, but I think you grossly underestimate the sheer horror that many many faced. True that away from the front lines, black humour will of course have prevailed. But you cannot surely think that a few laughs in any way minimises the scale of the misery of that war for so many. Millions and millions dead. Many thousands more gassed and - even if they survived, like my grandad in Wolverhampton - lungs wrecked for the rest of their wheezing lives, and many more with shattered bodies and minds.

I for one will not accept the picture you seem to imply.

Am waiting to see the Peter Jackson film. Mark Kermode & others say it is fantastic.

Well said.

I find it disturbing to discover that people think like that. I'm sure that those who witnessed the horrors of mutilation, phosgene, mustard gas and shell shock...notwithstanding being rescued from a sunken ship wouldn't have come back laughing that it was a jolly good jaunt. Just because the forces would have found time to laugh and joke it didn't mean that it was a load of fun.

My granddad said that he'd killed seven Germans and it was on his conscience for the rest of his life.


Interestingly, Peter Jackson has said that in the interviews he has for They Shall Not Grow Old, many gave similar views to that of Big Bad Wolf. Some said it was the best time of their lives. The interview with Empire Podcast was good if anyone is interested: https://soundcloud.com/empiremagazine

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 Post subject: Re: Walter Tull
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:37 pm 
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toomb wrote:
SELWolf wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Sorry BBW, but I think you grossly underestimate the sheer horror that many many faced. True that away from the front lines, black humour will of course have prevailed. But you cannot surely think that a few laughs in any way minimises the scale of the misery of that war for so many. Millions and millions dead. Many thousands more gassed and - even if they survived, like my grandad in Wolverhampton - lungs wrecked for the rest of their wheezing lives, and many more with shattered bodies and minds.

I for one will not accept the picture you seem to imply.

Am waiting to see the Peter Jackson film. Mark Kermode & others say it is fantastic.

Well said.

I find it disturbing to discover that people think like that. I'm sure that those who witnessed the horrors of mutilation, phosgene, mustard gas and shell shock...notwithstanding being rescued from a sunken ship wouldn't have come back laughing that it was a jolly good jaunt. Just because the forces would have found time to laugh and joke it didn't mean that it was a load of fun.

My granddad said that he'd killed seven Germans and it was on his conscience for the rest of his life.


Interestingly, Peter Jackson has said that in the interviews he has for They Shall Not Grow Old, many gave similar views to that of Big Bad Wolf. Some said it was the best time of their lives. The interview with Empire Podcast was good if anyone is interested: https://soundcloud.com/empiremagazine

But it isn't a representative sample, Tom. He took soldiers who had a different view of the war as his sample so by a self-fulfilling prophecy they would say that, wouldn't they?

Whilst there some who were better fed and better clothed in combat than they were as civilians, how can a war where so many died, and who died ghastly deaths, and leaving so many permanently injured, maimed or mentally damaged be regarded as a bean-feast?

If it wasn't as bad as some make out then there wouldn't have been the massive social and political changes which took place afterwards.

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 Post subject: Re: Walter Tull
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:34 pm 
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Absolutely!

Well said SEL. i think we are on the same page. Perhaps we are closer to some of those who served than some others (for whom it is a piece of history, no more tangible than Roman times....)

Please don't confuse black humour and gallows humour as 'fun', but rather as a way of coping with EXTREME tragedy and misery.

Please close this thread.

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