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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:50 pm 
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There is no God!

as soon as they realise it then they will have to make this life work.

unfortunately they will never realise it. this goes for all parties.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:09 pm 
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whelp wrote:
There is no God!

as soon as they realise it then they will have to make this life work.

unfortunately they will never realise it. this goes for all parties.


Simple, innit? I don't understand why so many don't understand it.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:24 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
whelp wrote:
There is no God!

as soon as they realise it then they will have to make this life work.

unfortunately they will never realise it. this goes for all parties.


Simple, innit? I don't understand why so many don't understand it.


it just seems so obvious. as soon as you realise this then its all down to you.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:30 pm 
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Personally don't give a monkeys what the believe in, it's their business and as long as they don't try and impose their religion, values and culture on others by force, live and let live.

However, when they kill innocent people to make "statements" about what they believe in, they become my enemy. They should also become my countries enemy, as last time I looked my country had a rule of law and stood up to protect the innocent.

When they are my enemy and my countries enemy, gloves off and take the fight to them and take it hard. They started the indiscriminate killing my country and it's allies should use every means possible to stop them and bring their reign of terror to an end.

They are not followers of a religion of peace, they have proved this by their actions. They follow a religion of murder and domination. They should be put down like the dogs they are.

As to Moscow's and Sel's bravery theory, well some members of the SS were exceptionally brave. Should we laud them for what they stood for ?

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:21 pm 
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suiging wrote:

As to Moscow's and Sel's bravery theory, well some members of the SS were exceptionally brave. Should we laud them for what they stood for ?


I haven't a clue what you're intending here. :shock: :roll: I think you're shaking the wrong dog by the tail...or even worse, shaking the right dog by the wrong tail. :shock:

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The real problem about talking about these matters, and I think Moscow alluded to it, is that there's so much bloody hypocrisy and double standards preached. People (quite rightly) get their back up about these tragedies but some have their prejudices ignited in the process.


Another problem is that once ignited, temperatures quickly rise and rational argument flies through the open window with folks being misquoted, misunderstood and misrepresented. It's most misbecoming and I have misgivings about those who misjudge me so.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:48 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
suiging wrote:

As to Moscow's and Sel's bravery theory, well some members of the SS were exceptionally brave. Should we laud them for what they stood for ?


I haven't a clue what you're intending here. :shock: :roll: I think you're shaking the wrong dog by the tail...or even worse, shaking the right dog by the wrong tail. :shock:

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The real problem about talking about these matters, and I think Moscow alluded to it, is that there's so much bloody hypocrisy and double standards preached. People (quite rightly) get their back up about these tragedies but some have their prejudices ignited in the process.


Another problem is that once ignited, temperatures quickly rise and rational argument flies through the open window with folks being misquoted, misunderstood and misrepresented. It's most misbecoming and I have misgivings about those who misjudge me so.


As long as you don't try and shake my tail.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:13 pm 
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Embers wrote:

As long as you don't try and shake my tail.


No, you're safe, matey.

Anyhow, we're looking into a date for the Peak District week and am still awaiting recommendations for visits. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:26 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
Embers wrote:

As long as you don't try and shake my tail.


No, you're safe, matey.

Anyhow, we're looking into a date for the Peak District week and am still awaiting recommendations for visits. :wink:


No probs, I shall PM you in a wee while.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:28 pm 
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suiging wrote:
Personally don't give a monkeys what the believe in, it's their business and as long as they don't try and impose their religion, values and culture on others by force, live and let live.

However, when they kill innocent people to make "statements" about what they believe in, they become my enemy. They should also become my countries enemy, as last time I looked my country had a rule of law and stood up to protect the innocent.

When they are my enemy and my countries enemy, gloves off and take the fight to them and take it hard. They started the indiscriminate killing my country and it's allies should use every means possible to stop them and bring their reign of terror to an end.

They are not followers of a religion of peace, they have proved this by their actions. They follow a religion of murder and domination. They should be put down like the dogs they are.

As to Moscow's and Sel's bravery theory, well some members of the SS were exceptionally brave. Should we laud them for what they stood for ?


No Mr. Ging, they did NOT start the indiscriminate killing, our side did and you can decide yourself when.

Never any mention of BRAVERY in my posts, was just suggesting that anyone that wishes to make a self-sacrifice by blowing themselves up or, committing an act that we collectively term 'Terrorism' and, that the perpetrator realises prior to that act that they themselves will be killed is not cowardice, but blind faith in that they are doing something for their cause.

No different in my opinion and against your theory of cowardice against bravery that, the Japanese Kamikaze Pilots were Cowards when they flew their aeroplanes into American ships etc. which act made them in the eyes of their peers, heroes and brave heroes too for doing so, but I don't recall any claims of paradise or xxx amount of virgins or martyrdom - they just did it because they believed totally and possibly blindly without doubt that they were doing the right thing.

Is there a difference here?

Why try to bring the SS into this has no bearing whatsoever, you could not fault the Waffen SS as fighting soldiers and probably better that the British at that time, but don't forget our OWN history and what atrocities we are responsible for.

Our British Empire carved up the Middle East and drew new borders and renamed countries and obviously did a good job too.

Don't get me wrong here as you already have it seems, I'd slot any IS barsteward between the eyes if I could and before he could slot me. That is the way it is, the way it is going to be as we shall never tolerate each others beliefs and non beliefs when one or the other tries to dictate upon the other, but I retain the right to say or suggest that their acts are not cowardly, but miss-given, outrageous or whatever.

You would be better pointing your frustrations at the UK PC Brigade so that the Younger Soldiers today have the license to do what is necessary. Albeit, I doubt you will find many British Soldiers ready to stand up with no armour, no shield and shoot at the enemy saying that it is Allah's Will whether or not I get shot or not today - Fuck that religious bollux for a game of soldiers and hence I suggest/say they're not cowards.

Each to their own and their opinion. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:49 pm 
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True. The British Empire did create borders where borders did not exist. However, The Greeks, Romans, Huns, Franks, Saxons, Han, Zulu, Soviets etc etc etc did before them and Woodrow Wilson and countless Americans after them .

Magnificent soldiers the SS, also agreed, but not many try to forgive them their excesses by claiming they were radicalised and indoctrinated ( when they almost certainly were). We are giving credence to sadistic murderers by in any way rationalising or excusing their crimes. Perhaps calling them cowards for beheading traumatised and tortured Journalists and care workers in orange jumpsuits is the wrong description. Again, perhaps they are not cowards for seeking eternal joy with a shed load of virgins by blowing themselves up alongside school children? Personally using human shields in captured towns and seeking personal gratification through murder, sits nicely with the term cowardice.

As you say though, just an opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:34 am 
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Facts get lost when the winners write about history.

Here's one key fact that shouldn't be forgotten, the West has killed more innocent people from the East than the other way round.

You reap what you sow.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:47 pm 
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suiging wrote:
True. The British Empire did create borders where borders did not exist. However, The Greeks, Romans, Huns, Franks, Saxons, Han, Zulu, Soviets etc etc etc did before them and Woodrow Wilson and countless Americans after them .

Magnificent soldiers the SS, also agreed, but not many try to forgive them their excesses by claiming they were radicalised and indoctrinated ( when they almost certainly were). We are giving credence to sadistic murderers by in any way rationalising or excusing their crimes. Perhaps calling them cowards for beheading traumatised and tortured Journalists and care workers in orange jumpsuits is the wrong description. Again, perhaps they are not cowards for seeking eternal joy with a shed load of virgins by blowing themselves up alongside school children? Personally using human shields in captured towns and seeking personal gratification through murder, sits nicely with the term cowardice.

As you say though, just an opinion.


There was a time 100 years ago when 'WE' shot our own young soldiers on the Western Front by Firing Squad that were traumatised, shell shocked and basically scared shitless - their crime being deemed by their Peers as Cowardice and/or Desertion. Now, we rightly call them heroes - perhaps.

Shoot them, chop their heads off, hang them, lethal injection, electric chair and so on................... Each culture has its way of realising capital punishment.

The head removal of foreigners is a retaliation against Western Discriminate and Indiscriminate bombing. Why the fuck do unarmed Westerners go out there in the first place whether they be Journalists or Aid Workers, is it worth the risk. :?

As Rambo asked to the Church Aid Workers going into Burma who wanted to change things by preaching he Bible and providing Aid - 'Do you have any weapons?'

'No' came the reply.

'Then You Ain't Gonna Change Nothing, Go Home' Rambo replies (or similar). :roll:

What a sick fooked up World we live in, but history dictates that there was never any real peace in our time - ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:37 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Facts get lost when the winners write about history.

Here's one key fact that shouldn't be forgotten, the West has killed more innocent people from the East than the other way round.

You reap what you sow.


But we haven't sown anything, and I think Genghis Khan and his Mongol offspring killed quite a few on their journey west, i want reperations

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:45 pm 
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whelp wrote:
There is no God!

as soon as they realise it then they will have to make this life work.

unfortunately they will never realise it. this goes for all parties.


Anything done in the name of religion is ******* up anyway.I've a new testament given to the kids for the queen's diamond jubilee and i've had a scan and you forget how sodding miserable it is.People getting thrown into the fire and loads of gnashing and gnawing of teeth.Loads of bleedin riddles i have no idea what the **** they mean,i translated John Donne's poetry easier than this *****.Reading this would confuse and scare any kid shitless and never mind that they were given to the kids in honour of the queen it should be banned ffs.Here endeth my lesson :x

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:58 pm 
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suiging wrote:
We are giving credence to sadistic murderers by in any way rationalising or excusing their crimes. Perhaps calling them cowards for beheading traumatised and tortured Journalists and care workers in orange jumpsuits is the wrong description. Again, perhaps they are not cowards for seeking eternal joy with a shed load of virgins by blowing themselves up alongside school children? Personally using human shields in captured towns and seeking personal gratification through murder, sits nicely with the term cowardice.

As you say though, just an opinion.


I'm not excusing them nor rationalising them. In my opinion they are a bunch of religious nutters who's continued existence constitutes nothing but mayhem to the rest of the Middle East and who's philosophy is riddled with double standards and contradictions. However, how the government has reacted to their actions with the soundbites that they have doesn't seem to me to be the right way forward. Their own rhetoric is full of double standards and contradictions and only serves to do harm to race relations in this country.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:06 pm 
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I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror... Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies! I remember when I was with Special Forces... seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate some children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there, and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried, I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out; I didn't know what I wanted to do! And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it... I never want to forget. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought, my God... the genius of that! The genius! The will to do that! Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we, because they could stand that these were not monsters, these were men... trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love... but they had the strength... the strength... to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men, our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment! Because it's judgment that defeats us.

40 years ago Marlon Brando came out with that speech. Having men who are moral first seems to be the crux of his message, morality and cowardice are not good bedfellows.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:12 pm 
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Ironfistedmonk wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Facts get lost when the winners write about history.

Here's one key fact that shouldn't be forgotten, the West has killed more innocent people from the East than the other way round.

You reap what you sow.


But we haven't sown anything, and I think Genghis Khan and his Mongol offspring killed quite a few on their journey west, i want reperations


Blair and Bush certainly sowed seeds of self-destruction. Bush's foreign policy directly lead to the 7/11 episode. Military action thereafter marginalised and radicalised young muslims in the Middle East who took advantage of the power vacuum left when Saddam Hussein was got rid of. From there the situation mushroomed. These radical muslims are enjoying a standard of living and raison d'etre far beyond anything than they would do if they lived on the outside of it. The sense of power and self-importance they gain from this experience is the reason why so many are joining up. The numbers of fatalities are not high by those who are in control and by brainwashing a continuing supply of suicide bombers/"soldiers" it won't be all over by Christmas. As we all know, guerrilla tactics are almost impossible to defeat.

KK is right on this one, we are reaping what has been sown although the history goes back long before Bush Jnr arriving on the scene.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:38 pm 
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Britain Invaded Afghanistan in the Late 1830s

"The British resolved to invade Afghanistan, and the Army of the Indus, a formidable force of more than 20,000 British and Indian troops, set off from India for Afghanistan in late 1838. After difficult travel through the mountain passes, the British reached Kabul in April 1839. They marched unopposed into the Afghan capital city.

Dost Mohammed was toppled as the Afghan leader, and the British installed Shah Shuja, who had been driven from power decades earlier. The original plan was to withdraw all the British troops, but Shah Shuja’s hold on power was shaky, so two brigades of British troops had to remain in Kabul."

Anyway we retreated and got slaughtered and we just do not learn any lesson from history.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:04 pm 
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I helped pull a seventeen year old lad out of the oggin today. He had filled his backpack full f rocks and went for a little swim as he thought he had let his family down by his exam results. That is a tragedy.

A seventeen year old from Luton, running off to join murderers............To some a tragedy, to me a crime.

We live in the now and must learn from history. However, we can't let history be an excuse for murderous actions in the world we live in. We do not live in Albania, Iraq or in the hills above Kabul. Our society, is tolerant, but has laws that protect the innocent when applied without fear or favour (Rotherham ?). We also have a Government who's job is to protect our people and enforce our laws. In addition we as a people, tend to take action to help and protect others in need, it makes us who we are. I don't give a shit if some beat themselves up over who did what when, however, I do think it's time we acknowledged we are at war in the now and must act to protect our way of life by taking direct and immediate action.

We should only go to war to protect our own and help those in need. The type of war being fought now starts at home, The enemy are in our midst, corrupting our young and vulnerable. Bin the PC bollocks and take them on face to face and in the Banks where it hurts them the most. Cut ISIL down at the roots. Some of those roots are in our own back garden.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:48 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
Ironfistedmonk wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Facts get lost when the winners write about history.

Here's one key fact that shouldn't be forgotten, the West has killed more innocent people from the East than the other way round.

You reap what you sow.


But we haven't sown anything, and I think Genghis Khan and his Mongol offspring killed quite a few on their journey west, i want reperations


Blair and Bush certainly sowed seeds of self-destruction. Bush's foreign policy directly lead to the 7/11 episode. Military action thereafter marginalised and radicalised young muslims in the Middle East who took advantage of the power vacuum left when Saddam Hussein was got rid of. From there the situation mushroomed. These radical muslims are enjoying a standard of living and raison d'etre far beyond anything than they would do if they lived on the outside of it. The sense of power and self-importance they gain from this experience is the reason why so many are joining up. The numbers of fatalities are not high by those who are in control and by brainwashing a continuing supply of suicide bombers/"soldiers" it won't be all over by Christmas. As we all know, guerrilla tactics are almost impossible to defeat.

KK is right on this one, we are reaping what has been sown although the history goes back long before Bush Jnr arriving on the scene.


We, the normal working people of this country, the ones being shot whilst on holiday, have sown nothing

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:19 pm 
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Ironfistedmonk wrote:

We, the normal working people of this country, the ones being shot whilst on holiday, have sown nothing


Just a few thoughts:


The problem with the word "we" IFM, is that I don't know who you mean. Plenty could be included in the "we" you talk about but plenty would be excluded from it as well. Pluralism isn't just restricted to ethnicity. However, the real targets for the mullahs aren't the ordinary folk but they use them (us) as cannon fodder. Britain isn't regarded by the rest of the world as an anti-racist society but plenty use aspects of it to further their own interests.

It's an interesting topic of discussion. The generalities used by many overlook the specifics of the few.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:45 pm 
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Ironfistedmonk wrote:
SELWolf wrote:
Ironfistedmonk wrote:

But we haven't sown anything, and I think Genghis Khan and his Mongol offspring killed quite a few on their journey west, i want reperations


Blair and Bush certainly sowed seeds of self-destruction. Bush's foreign policy directly lead to the 7/11 episode. Military action thereafter marginalised and radicalised young muslims in the Middle East who took advantage of the power vacuum left when Saddam Hussein was got rid of. From there the situation mushroomed. These radical muslims are enjoying a standard of living and raison d'etre far beyond anything than they would do if they lived on the outside of it. The sense of power and self-importance they gain from this experience is the reason why so many are joining up. The numbers of fatalities are not high by those who are in control and by brainwashing a continuing supply of suicide bombers/"soldiers" it won't be all over by Christmas. As we all know, guerrilla tactics are almost impossible to defeat.

KK is right on this one, we are reaping what has been sown although the history goes back long before Bush Jnr arriving on the scene.


We, the normal working people of this country, the ones being shot whilst on holiday, have sown nothing


The people (Royal We) voted them in, (the Government) and did nothing to stop their invasions of foreign lands thinking it better to believe what shit we see and hear and of course, Saddam Hussain was a threat to OUR security with his weapons of Mass Destruction etc, etc.

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing

Enjoy the beach.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:50 pm 
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Rozza wrote:

The use of ordnance in warfare is justified to enable a swifter end than "Boots on the ground" could ever do.
Whether it was Bomber Harris in the forties or Colonel Howdydodee in the noughties it matters not because it is a legitimate tactic in warfare.


Air-strikes are not an effective method of tackling jihadist guerrilla warfare. They cost a huge amount involving planes taking off from Italy, re-fuelling in the air, using very expensive rockets and not actually hitting appropriate targets.

Besides not actually doing much good, costs of such operations come into the equation, it seems, like with most management strategies in the public service these days. Difficult to get boots on the ground dealing with them when the doors aren't allowed to be opened.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:08 am 
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SELWolf wrote:
Rozza wrote:

The use of ordnance in warfare is justified to enable a swifter end than "Boots on the ground" could ever do.
Whether it was Bomber Harris in the forties or Colonel Howdydodee in the noughties it matters not because it is a legitimate tactic in warfare.


Air-strikes are not an effective method of tackling jihadist guerrilla warfare. They cost a huge amount involving planes taking off from Italy, re-fuelling in the air, using very expensive rockets and not actually hitting appropriate targets.

Besides not actually doing much good, costs of such operations come into the equation, it seems, like with most management strategies in the public service these days. Difficult to get boots on the ground dealing with them when the doors aren't allowed to be opened.


True, to a point. When your enemy is as logistically spread out as this mob, legitimate targets for air power to cut their lines of command and supply are evident. To totally defeat them, first we need to make membership both painful to them and abhorrent to the public they hide behind . This will cost the West in lives of their soldiers to achieve aim one, and financially and emotionally to achieve goal two.

You can not beat these people with your military alone as they do not represent one country or group of countries to master by your force of arms. They are a religious ( even if the BBC say otherwise) cross-boundary movement, who the world will need to defeat with education, and by taking away the things they hide behind.

In the East they hide behind civilian populations, in the West they hide behind PC, Liberals, who are allowing them to preach their doctrine of hate with impunity.

Sad thing is, the religion they follow was born by the sword and throughout it's doctrine allows or actively encourages non-believers to be killed. Not a "racist" or "religious bigoted" comment, statement of fact, just read the book.

How you defeat that mentality will be the challenge for this and future generations of people who just want to live in peace.

Try getting a copy in your local library Really interesting read on how to take them on....
http://www.amazon.co.uk/COUNTERINSURGEN ... +kilcullen

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:19 am 
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SELWolf wrote:
Rozza wrote:

The use of ordnance in warfare is justified to enable a swifter end than "Boots on the ground" could ever do.
Whether it was Bomber Harris in the forties or Colonel Howdydodee in the noughties it matters not because it is a legitimate tactic in warfare.


Air-strikes are not an effective method of tackling jihadist guerrilla warfare. They cost a huge amount involving planes taking off from Italy, re-fuelling in the air, using very expensive rockets and not actually hitting appropriate targets.

Besides not actually doing much good, costs of such operations come into the equation, it seems, like with most management strategies in the public service these days. Difficult to get boots on the ground dealing with them when the doors aren't allowed to be opened.


Who determines what an "Appropriate target" is?

Ordnance takes minutes to deliver, boots on the ground take years to install and longer years to withdraw.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:24 am 
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Rozza wrote:
SELWolf wrote:
Rozza wrote:

The use of ordnance in warfare is justified to enable a swifter end than "Boots on the ground" could ever do.
Whether it was Bomber Harris in the forties or Colonel Howdydodee in the noughties it matters not because it is a legitimate tactic in warfare.


Air-strikes are not an effective method of tackling jihadist guerrilla warfare. They cost a huge amount involving planes taking off from Italy, re-fuelling in the air, using very expensive rockets and not actually hitting appropriate targets.

Besides not actually doing much good, costs of such operations come into the equation, it seems, like with most management strategies in the public service these days. Difficult to get boots on the ground dealing with them when the doors aren't allowed to be opened.


Who determines what an "Appropriate target" is?

Ordnance takes minutes to deliver, boots on the ground take years to install and longer years to withdraw.

The government based on financial costs alone. What I wrote is government policy and nothing to do with any theory of mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:27 am 
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suiging wrote:
SELWolf wrote:
Rozza wrote:

The use of ordnance in warfare is justified to enable a swifter end than "Boots on the ground" could ever do.
Whether it was Bomber Harris in the forties or Colonel Howdydodee in the noughties it matters not because it is a legitimate tactic in warfare.


Air-strikes are not an effective method of tackling jihadist guerrilla warfare. They cost a huge amount involving planes taking off from Italy, re-fuelling in the air, using very expensive rockets and not actually hitting appropriate targets.

Besides not actually doing much good, costs of such operations come into the equation, it seems, like with most management strategies in the public service these days. Difficult to get boots on the ground dealing with them when the doors aren't allowed to be opened.


True, to a point.

You can not beat these people with your military alone as they do not represent one country or group of countries to master by your force of arms. They are a religious ( even if the BBC say otherwise) cross-boundary movement, who the world will need to defeat with education, and by taking away the things they hide behind.


1. I said in reply to Rozza - it's current government policy - they do their sums about these matters better than I could.

2. I fully agree with you about this.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:08 am 
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Rozza wrote:
SELWolf wrote:
Rozza wrote:

The use of ordnance in warfare is justified to enable a swifter end than "Boots on the ground" could ever do.
Whether it was Bomber Harris in the forties or Colonel Howdydodee in the noughties it matters not because it is a legitimate tactic in warfare.


Air-strikes are not an effective method of tackling jihadist guerrilla warfare. They cost a huge amount involving planes taking off from Italy, re-fuelling in the air, using very expensive rockets and not actually hitting appropriate targets.

Besides not actually doing much good, costs of such operations come into the equation, it seems, like with most management strategies in the public service these days. Difficult to get boots on the ground dealing with them when the doors aren't allowed to be opened.


Who determines what an "Appropriate target" is?

Ordnance takes minutes to deliver, boots on the ground take years to install and longer years to withdraw.


You can't tell me that the Israelis don't know what's going on, where the baddies are massed or hiding. I've seen them Mossad documentaries, and Munich, and if these chaps wanted to, they could do some serious damage to ISIS. This is all political, but I do wonder what our secret services are doing back in Blighty. Moscow?

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:10 pm 
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Embers wrote:
but I do wonder what our secret services are doing back in Blighty. Moscow?


Homeland security and MI5 will be monitoring and trying to infiltrate the Mosques of the UK and trying to get some of their own on the inside. Special Branch (if they still exist by that title) will be monitoring Ports and Airports for those coming and going.

GCHQ will be monitoring the Internet and Mobile communications searching for keywords and passing that info to MI5/MI6 who will analyse what should, ought, can be followed up with the resources at hand as it ain't a bottomless pit of government funding.


In this current mess, MI6 will no doubt be fooked for Intel on the ground unless they're employing a few ex-SAS as Mercenaries for observation, but will rely on GCHQ for intercepts albeit, I would guess that the Americans are running the Intelligence show with NSA, but we have our GCHQ station on Cyprus so perhaps, we still have a part to play in the special relationship.

Difficult to judge nowadays having spent so many years out of the loop - just an educated guess at best.

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 Post subject: Re: Islamic Terrorists
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:45 pm 
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There's the old saying that for every hundred terrorist acts they stop, one will eventually get through.

Sad but probably still true :(

Back in the day, detained a huge ex-US Army NCO (big black lad) who was one of the founders of what has turned into these vile murderers we have today. The Septics don't like to remember the fact, but when "chatting" to him, the above is exactly what he said. Something like you can stop us a thousand times, but you'll never stop us every time.

He was right.

Easy job for us, big black lads in Kaftans tend to stand out in China. Not so easy to spot in London.

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