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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:10 pm 
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No. I still think you need to get the ball and stick it in the back of the net.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:39 pm 
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Left back wrote:
No. I still think you need to get the ball and stick it in the back of the net.


does knocker not share that belief? :shock: :?:

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:26 pm 
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chriskamara wrote:
Left back wrote:
No. I still think you need to get the ball and stick it in the back of the net.


does knocker not share that belief? :shock: :?:

yep,just in the most long winded way possible

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:56 pm 
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I think we all agree on the ball in the net theory, it's just how you go about getting it in the net that we all have our own ideas on. Me personally I'd like to be entertained by people doing things with the ball I can only dream about, not thumping it up field so some big lump can try and get his head on it, cos I can do that and it's not entertaining...well maybe it would be for a few minutes.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:08 pm 
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Ironfistedmonk wrote:
I think we all agree on the ball in the net theory, it's just how you go about getting it in the net that we all have our own ideas on. Me personally I'd like to be entertained by people doing things with the ball I can only dream about, not thumping it up field so some big lump can try and get his head on it, cos I can do that and it's not entertaining...well maybe it would be for a few minutes.


Would you be the thumper upper or the big lump? Either way I culd probably be mildly entertained for a while by it.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:09 pm 
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chriskamara wrote:
Left back wrote:
No. I still think you need to get the ball and stick it in the back of the net.


does knocker not share that belief? :shock: :?:


I don't know. I can't usually understand him or make it to the end of the post if my senility starts kicking in.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:30 pm 
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Left back wrote:
Ironfistedmonk wrote:
I think we all agree on the ball in the net theory, it's just how you go about getting it in the net that we all have our own ideas on. Me personally I'd like to be entertained by people doing things with the ball I can only dream about, not thumping it up field so some big lump can try and get his head on it, cos I can do that and it's not entertaining...well maybe it would be for a few minutes.


Would you be the thumper upper or the big lump? Either way I culd probably be mildly entertained for a while by it.


I'd be the thumper, "gerrit forward!" Proper football :roll:

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:06 pm 
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Left back wrote:
chriskamara wrote:
Left back wrote:
No. I still think you need to get the ball and stick it in the back of the net.


does knocker not share that belief? :shock: :?:


I don't know. I can't usually understand him or make it to the end of the post if my senility starts kicking in.


:lol:

If you look at knockers stuff, you can see past the cut and paste merchant.When knocker posts as knocker the hidden feeling, the spelling mistakes, the genuine emotion tends to come out in his text.

When he blandly posts other folks stuff I cor say I read it anymore, when he does it himself, I cor put it down.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:58 am 
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Sometimes your route to goal has been blocked and if you stick to what your doing its a near impossibility.

Bescott Stadium saturday.
Walsall first half were trying to pass from back to front, Brentford were closing down the space and stealing possession.
Walsall never looked like scoring, and Brentford seemed very comfortable.

Half time though and Walsall changed their tactics. The turned Brentford.

When they had the ball in their own half they began looking for the early longer ball.
Walsall also had two players dropping off the front line to receive the ball before they brought runners, facing forward into the game.
Brentford didn't react very well and Walsall could have easily won the game, Brentford didn't have a back up plan.

So Left back, yes its about putting the ball in the onion bag, but sometimes its finding the way to do so.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:10 am 
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Ironfistedmonk wrote:
Left back wrote:
Ironfistedmonk wrote:
I think we all agree on the ball in the net theory, it's just how you go about getting it in the net that we all have our own ideas on. Me personally I'd like to be entertained by people doing things with the ball I can only dream about, not thumping it up field so some big lump can try and get his head on it, cos I can do that and it's not entertaining...well maybe it would be for a few minutes.


Would you be the thumper upper or the big lump? Either way I culd probably be mildly entertained for a while by it.


I'd be the thumper, "gerrit forward!" Proper football :roll:


can I be the big lump then?

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:34 am 
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It would seem Walsall reverted to the 'thump to the lump' (although they're not that big), lightly disguised as 'looking for the early longer ball'.

Depends on how you look at it.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:52 pm 
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warn wrote:
It would seem Walsall reverted to the 'thump to the lump' (although they're not that big), lightly disguised as 'looking for the early longer ball'.

Depends on how you look at it.


the difference between a long pass and long ball becoming a bit merged methinks.

I still think unless a player is picked out then its long ball. if its hoof then its hoof.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:54 pm 
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whelp wrote:
warn wrote:
It would seem Walsall reverted to the 'thump to the lump' (although they're not that big), lightly disguised as 'looking for the early longer ball'.

Depends on how you look at it.


the difference between a long pass and long ball becoming a bit merged methinks.

I still think unless a player is picked out then its long ball. if its hoof then its hoof.


Exactly, nothing wrong with a long ball if it's with purpose, if all you are going to do is lump it every time you have the ball in the hope that something comes off then I'm sorry I'm not watching that shit. How many of the successful sides play "lump it" football? How many sides in the top divisions around the world do? How many successful international sides?

Yes you can be the big lump Whelp, I've decided I will play the Karl Henry role so only the experts can appreciate what I'd bring to the team.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:59 pm 
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Mix your game up and opponents will always be caught between different defensive systems.
Its a good skill to learn the drive, chip into a team mates chest.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:05 pm 
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Ironfistedmonk wrote:
whelp wrote:
warn wrote:
It would seem Walsall reverted to the 'thump to the lump' (although they're not that big), lightly disguised as 'looking for the early longer ball'.

Depends on how you look at it.


the difference between a long pass and long ball becoming a bit merged methinks.

I still think unless a player is picked out then its long ball. if its hoof then its hoof.


Exactly, nothing wrong with a long ball if it's with purpose, if all you are going to do is lump it every time you have the ball in the hope that something comes off then I'm sorry I'm not watching that shit. How many of the successful sides play "lump it" football? How many sides in the top divisions around the world do? How many successful international sides?

Yes you can be the big lump Whelp, I've decided I will play the Karl Henry role so only the experts can appreciate what I'd bring to the team.


I am I big lump so its really the only thing I could do!

good point about mixing it up tho Knocker. but as you've intimated, its still a pass not a hoof to a location.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:53 pm 
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In general what or who did form your views on football, family, friends, a mentor, teacher football club manager, who gave you insight?

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:17 pm 
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whelp wrote:
warn wrote:
It would seem Walsall reverted to the 'thump to the lump' (although they're not that big), lightly disguised as 'looking for the early longer ball'.

Depends on how you look at it.


the difference between a long pass and long ball becoming a bit merged methinks.

I still think unless a player is picked out then its long ball. if its hoof then its hoof.



Is a cross a 'long ball'. or is it just a 'hoof' if it doesn't find a man?
Do long diagonal balls (chance here Embers :lol: ) have a purpose even if they don't find a man?

So is an intended short pass just an aimless short ball if it doesn't find a man in the same way as a long ball which goes astray is judged?
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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:21 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
In general what or who did form your views on football, family, friends, a mentor, teacher football club manager, who gave you insight?


I have always listened to my grandad, you may know him Knocker if you know scouts. He has scouted for Notts Forest, Wolves, and is currently at Man Utd.

No football manager, coach, or even team mates have ever stood out to me from playing as extremely knowledgeable. Which I think says a lot about the way the country is at the moment.

I love listening to Gary Neville. Best pundit of my lifetime in my opinion.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:28 pm 
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Stallion Wolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
In general what or who did form your views on football, family, friends, a mentor, teacher football club manager, who gave you insight?


I have always listened to my grandad, you may know him Knocker if you know scouts. He has scouted for Notts Forest, Wolves, and is currently at Man Utd.

No football manager, coach, or even team mates have ever stood out to me from playing as extremely knowledgeable. Which I think says a lot about the way the country is at the moment.

I love listening to Gary Neville. Best pundit of my lifetime in my opinion.


Its amazing how many faces you know but don't know the name when you see the scouts around the grounds, so a good chance.
Have had to keep quiet on Wolves scouting, all cards close to chest stuff but a couple of names have slipped the media.
Both young targets.

Gary Neville is a strange one, most people think him good, but i just don't rate him if I'm honest.
Strange world football.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:41 pm 
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Stallion Wolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
In general what or who did form your views on football, family, friends, a mentor, teacher football club manager, who gave you insight?


I have always listened to my grandad, you may know him Knocker if you know scouts. He has scouted for Notts Forest, Wolves, and is currently at Man Utd.

No football manager, coach, or even team mates have ever stood out to me from playing as extremely knowledgeable. Which I think says a lot about the way the country is at the moment.

I love listening to Gary Neville. Best pundit of my lifetime in my opinion.


Gary is very good, proper student of the game IMO.

I do like Lee Dixon as well. seems to spot aspects of the play that others miss.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:58 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Stallion Wolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
In general what or who did form your views on football, family, friends, a mentor, teacher football club manager, who gave you insight?


I have always listened to my grandad, you may know him Knocker if you know scouts. He has scouted for Notts Forest, Wolves, and is currently at Man Utd.

No football manager, coach, or even team mates have ever stood out to me from playing as extremely knowledgeable. Which I think says a lot about the way the country is at the moment.

I love listening to Gary Neville. Best pundit of my lifetime in my opinion.


Its amazing how many faces you know but don't know the name when you see the scouts around the grounds, so a good chance.
Have had to keep quiet on Wolves scouting, all cards close to chest stuff but a couple of names have slipped the media.
Both young targets.

Gary Neville is a strange one, most people think him good, but i just don't rate him if I'm honest.
Strange world football.


He only scouts kids, tried to get Man Utd to sign a young Joe Hart, they said he wasnt good enough.
He is absolutely raving about another young goalkeeper Shrewsbury have at the moment, his name escapes me. Think he is only 15/16. Said he is the best he has seen at that age.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:04 pm 
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]In general what or who did form your views on football, family, friends, a mentor, teacher football club manager, who gave you insight?[/quote]

I have always listened to my grandad, you may know him Knocker if you know scouts. He has scouted for Notts Forest, Wolves, and is currently at Man Utd.

No football manager, coach, or even team mates have ever stood out to me from playing as extremely knowledgeable. Which I think says a lot about the way the country is at the moment.

I love listening to Gary Neville. Best pundit of my lifetime in my opinion.[/quote]

Its amazing how many faces you know but don't know the name when you see the scouts around the grounds, so a good chance.
Have had to keep quiet on Wolves scouting, all cards close to chest stuff but a couple of names have slipped the media.
Both young targets.

Gary Neville is a strange one, most people think him good, but i just don't rate him if I'm honest.
Strange world football.[/quote]

He only scouts kids, tried to get Man Utd to sign a young Joe Hart, they said he wasnt good enough.
He is absolutely raving about another young goalkeeper Shrewsbury have at the moment, his name escapes me. Think he is only 15/16. Said he is the best he has seen at that age.[/quote]

Kids are the most difficult, i must have seen a hundred who on first watch looked better than any other,
i like scouts like Charlie Hooper at Wolves who look beyond the skills.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:46 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
So Left back, yes its about putting the ball in the onion bag, but sometimes its finding the way to do so.



That's the get the ball bit. 8)

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:26 pm 
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warn wrote:
whelp wrote:
warn wrote:
It would seem Walsall reverted to the 'thump to the lump' (although they're not that big), lightly disguised as 'looking for the early longer ball'.

Depends on how you look at it.


the difference between a long pass and long ball becoming a bit merged methinks.

I still think unless a player is picked out then its long ball. if its hoof then its hoof.



Is a cross a 'long ball'. or is it just a 'hoof' if it doesn't find a man?
Do long diagonal balls (chance here Embers :lol: ) have a purpose even if they don't find a man?

So is an intended short pass just an aimless short ball if it doesn't find a man in the same way as a long ball which goes astray is judged?
8)


Do long diagonal balls have a purpose even if they don't find a man? I can't remember whether that quote was attributed to Marje Proops or Eric Cantona...

Under Mick, and perhaps Graham Taylor, was the hoof-ball we resorted to, on many occasions, a tactic, or because we'd run out of ideas? Balls over the top for Bully, under Graham Turner, was the obvious way to go.

Stephen Ward, he likes a 'long pass' :wink:

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:56 pm 
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warn wrote:
Is a cross a 'long ball'. or is it just a 'hoof' if it doesn't find a man?
Do long diagonal balls (chance here Embers ) have a purpose even if they don't find a man?

So is an intended short pass just an aimless short ball if it doesn't find a man in the same way as a long ball which goes astray is judged?
Embers wrote:
Do long diagonal balls have a purpose even if they don't find a man? I can't remember whether that quote was attributed to Marje Proops or Eric Cantona...

Under Mick, and perhaps Graham Taylor, was the hoof-ball we resorted to, on many occasions, a tactic, or because we'd run out of ideas? Balls over the top for Bully, under Graham Turner, was the obvious way to go.

Stephen Ward, he likes a 'long pass'



Edward de Bono. :wink:

I'm not advocating aimless deliveries, but sometimes perhaps an angled ball into space behind the defence relieves pressure, allows re-grouping, and if the defence is pressed can lead to an attacking position.

I'm really asking, is a misdirected long ball any worse than an off target short one?
Certainly it's potentially less damaging.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:09 pm 
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This is better than talking 6-3-1 or marking the space or playing without the ball.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:11 am 
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Embers wrote:
Under Mick, and perhaps Graham Taylor, was the hoof-ball we resorted to, on many occasions, a tactic, or because we'd run out of ideas? Balls over the top for Bully, under Graham Turner, was the obvious way to go.


Despite his tarnished reputation, I didn't think we played much hoof ball under Taylor at all. It was certainly a power based game, but more along the flanks than booted forward. Our midfield was pretty fine back then, and would've been a thing of beauty had Thomas and Froggy not got crocked.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:19 am 
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shropswolf wrote:
Embers wrote:
Under Mick, and perhaps Graham Taylor, was the hoof-ball we resorted to, on many occasions, a tactic, or because we'd run out of ideas? Balls over the top for Bully, under Graham Turner, was the obvious way to go.


Despite his tarnished reputation, I didn't think we played much hoof ball under Taylor at all. It was certainly a power based game, but more along the flanks than booted forward. Our midfield was pretty fine back then, and would've been a thing of beauty had Thomas and Froggy not got crocked.



It wasn't quite as simple as that. In the Fourth and Third Divisions teams played a high line so there was a lot of attacking space behind the back four. When we reached the Second Division teams played a lot deeper, restricting our attacking space behind them, so we had to adapt.

GT didn't play 'hoof', he wanted quick direct football, much as we had played in the fifties, and as shrops said, we had some very decent players, and if Thomas and Froggatt hadn't been injured his tenure could have had a very outcome.

Mick didn't play 'hoof ball', and Ipswich don't now. The problem was we didn't improve the squad with better quality players, and when those who had done so well to get us promoted and keep us in the Prem for two seasons couldn't adapt and progress further they came under pressure, and what happens so often then is they 'get rid'.

These days I don't think many teams, even in leagues lower than ours actually go out to play 'hoof ball', it may stray into games, but not by design.

Underfoot conditions have improved over the last twenty years enabling the ball to be played along the deck with greater success than was possible on those muddy, uneven pitches of the not too distant past.

Oh, no, Knocker has not changed my views on football, they were formed during the fifties watching proper blokes play.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:19 am 
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warn wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
Embers wrote:
Under Mick, and perhaps Graham Taylor, was the hoof-ball we resorted to, on many occasions, a tactic, or because we'd run out of ideas? Balls over the top for Bully, under Graham Turner, was the obvious way to go.


Despite his tarnished reputation, I didn't think we played much hoof ball under Taylor at all. It was certainly a power based game, but more along the flanks than booted forward. Our midfield was pretty fine back then, and would've been a thing of beauty had Thomas and Froggy not got crocked.



It wasn't quite as simple as that. In the Fourth and Third Divisions teams played a high line so there was a lot of attacking space behind the back four. When we reached the Second Division teams played a lot deeper, restricting our attacking space behind them, so we had to adapt.

GT didn't play 'hoof', he wanted quick direct football, much as we had played in the fifties, and as shrops said, we had some very decent players, and if Thomas and Froggatt hadn't been injured his tenure could have had a very outcome.

Mick didn't play 'hoof ball', and Ipswich don't now. The problem was we didn't improve the squad with better quality players, and when those who had done so well to get us promoted and keep us in the Prem for two seasons couldn't adapt and progress further they came under pressure, and what happens so often then is they 'get rid'.

These days I don't think many teams, even in leagues lower than ours actually go out to play 'hoof ball', it may stray into games, but not by design.

Underfoot conditions have improved over the last twenty years enabling the ball to be played along the deck with greater success than was possible on those muddy, uneven pitches of the not too distant past.

Oh, no, Knocker has not changed my views on football, they were formed during the fifties watching proper blokes play.


Well under Mick, it became a tad frustrating, seeing us lamp the ball deep into the opposition half, for no apparent reason apart from pressure, straight to their defenders. I presume it was a tactic, but one you see in Rugby Union.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:31 am 
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Left back wrote:
This is better than talking 6-3-1 or marking the space or playing without the ball.


Possibly best we dont support Arsenal as i would be analysing their play between five lines, simple Wolves get it wide get it forward is the black country recipe.

Do the majority want simplicity or complexity, i wonder?

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he first twenty years of life contain the whole of experience. The rest is observation. Graham Greene

If team culture is weak losing divides the team. If team culture is strong, losing creates the hunger to win again. Either way culture rules.


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