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 Post subject: VAR
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:05 pm 
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This nonsense will destroy football as we know it regardless of when we first knew football.

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:39 am 
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Rozza wrote:
This nonsense will destroy football as we know it regardless of when we first knew football.


I've always been very undecided on this. There are some definite teething problems at the moment.

I wish it didn't take so long, or they trusted football fans inside the stadium enough to be able to watch the decision being made. I go to watch a fair amount of cricket and rugby as well, and it's always good when they go to the video ref/umpire, and you ca watch the decision being made on the big screen. But football fans, as ever, are treated as lower than the low

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:45 am 
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Curious to know how you think it'll destroy football Rozza?

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:48 am 
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Football attracts to much money these days and from that you see the creation of unrequired sideshows.

Excess money would be best spent on the grass roots of the game.

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:57 am 
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If the ref standard was up to scratch and players didn’t try and cheat there way through the game we wouldn’t need VAR. But as it is too many matches are decided by poor ref decisions and diving players for me, it’s a necessary to get the right result....admittedly the process as it is doesn’t work.


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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:51 am 
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wolfie_01 wrote:
If the ref standard was up to scratch and players didn’t try and cheat there way through the game we wouldn’t need VAR. But as it is too many matches are decided by poor ref decisions and diving players for me, it’s a necessary to get the right result....admittedly the process as it is doesn’t work.


Refs get 96% of decisions correct. I reckon they are far and away the most competent people involved in football - managers and players get far more decisions wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:16 pm 
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Rozza wrote:
This nonsense will destroy football as we know it regardless of when we first knew football.



Ar, Roz, too many reviews and I'll miss the last train back home...

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Last edited by gladbachwolf on Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:33 pm 
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Cally wrote:
Curious to know how you think it'll destroy football Rozza?

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Many ways Cal, players are even now doing the square box sign to the Ref to get a corner or a throw in. The game is stopped too much now, delaying it even further whilst human decisions are questioned and run and re-run will only diminish the spectacle further.
There will be an elitist disparity in the use of it both for fans and whichever league your team happens to be in outside the Prem.
Cricket and Tennis use various systems scientifically to the advantage of the game but the true daftness of the system in both football and Rugby is that the opinions of the humans in charge are disregarded so that they can refer matters to, yes you guessed it, the opinions of another human.

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Rozza wrote:
Cally wrote:
Curious to know how you think it'll destroy football Rozza?

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Many ways Cal, players are even now doing the square box sign to the Ref to get a corner or a throw in. The game is stopped too much now, delaying it even further whilst human decisions are questioned and run and re-run will only diminish the spectacle further.
There will be an elitist disparity in the use of it both for fans and whichever league your team happens to be in outside the Prem.
Cricket and Tennis use various systems scientifically to the advantage of the game but the true daftness of the system in both football and Rugby is that the opinions of the humans in charge are disregarded so that they can refer matters to, yes you guessed it, the opinions of another human.


Hopefully players who make the VAR signal to the ref will receive the same sanction as waving an imaginary card, but I see what you're saying. The impression I get is that it is to only be used when there is a clear wrong decision made and it's up to the VAR to inform the on-field referee. According a report I read, it doesn't get used that much anyway.

I'm a bit mixed over VAR, I'm leaning towards supporting it but I agree a lot with some of the arguments against it. The FA need to make it abundantly clear the circumstances it should be used for and how it will be used, because even for these cup games there were misconceptions being littered around.

I do think it'll end up being a positive thing. No one likes it when a blatantly wrong decision is made against your team and for some it can have massive repercussions, but I can already see a lot of teething errors before the system is refined.

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:38 pm 
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toomb wrote:
wolfie_01 wrote:
If the ref standard was up to scratch and players didn’t try and cheat there way through the game we wouldn’t need VAR. But as it is too many matches are decided by poor ref decisions and diving players for me, it’s a necessary to get the right result....admittedly the process as it is doesn’t work.


Refs get 96% of decisions correct. I reckon they are far and away the most competent people involved in football - managers and players get far more decisions wrong.


I'd like to see who worked out that statistic as I would be highly dubious. Bobby Madley anyone? Besides its the game changers they often get wrong, how many times has Jota been abused this season and red cards not given?


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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:39 am 
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Last Wednesday I saw one one of the best refereeing displays of my lifetime. And he may have made a mistake or two.
Graham Scott at Stamford Bridge in the FA Cup tie Chelsea vs Norwich.

Under tremendous pressure and intimidation from Chelsea players, staff, fans and then co commentators and pundits.
The bloke stood firm from the surrounding onslaught and tried to be fair to both sides, minute by minute, decision to decision.

When you add to that VAR then the second guessing by everyone else you undermine the bloke in the middle.
Do that to often and he becomes a figure of ridicule, then watch the ref numbers suffer.

These blokes are better when they don't have to SECOND GUESS themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:14 pm 
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wolfie_01 wrote:
toomb wrote:
wolfie_01 wrote:
If the ref standard was up to scratch and players didn’t try and cheat there way through the game we wouldn’t need VAR. But as it is too many matches are decided by poor ref decisions and diving players for me, it’s a necessary to get the right result....admittedly the process as it is doesn’t work.


Refs get 96% of decisions correct. I reckon they are far and away the most competent people involved in football - managers and players get far more decisions wrong.


I'd like to see who worked out that statistic as I would be highly dubious. Bobby Madley anyone? Besides its the game changers they often get wrong, how many times has Jota been abused this season and red cards not given?


Have you thought, that if every referee is giving the same decision, it might not be them who's wrong?

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:07 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Excess money would be best spent on the grass roots of the game.


I'm paying £20 a month, per club, for my Joe's footy, yet on the Continent in countries such as Holland and Germany, youth football is already funded, I believe; why the fuck can't we do that here???

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:51 am 
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Refs get 96% of decisions correct. I reckon they are far and away the most competent people involved in football - managers and players get far more decisions wrong.[/quote]

I'd like to see who worked out that statistic as I would be highly dubious. Bobby Madley anyone? Besides its the game changers they often get wrong, how many times has Jota been abused this season and red cards not given?[/quote]

Have you thought, that if every referee is giving the same decision, it might not be them who's wrong?[/quote]

Was Batth's red against Bristol a worse tackle than the one's on Jota from Wheater or Worrall? The inconsistency of decision making is poor, even within the same matches let alone across different refs. They get a lot of the big decisions incorrect IMO. VAR is needed to help lessen the risk of matches decided by poor officiating.


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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:34 pm 
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wolfie_01 wrote:
Refs get 96% of decisions correct. I reckon they are far and away the most competent people involved in football - managers and players get far more decisions wrong.


I'd like to see who worked out that statistic as I would be highly dubious. Bobby Madley anyone? Besides its the game changers they often get wrong, how many times has Jota been abused this season and red cards not given?[/quote]

Have you thought, that if every referee is giving the same decision, it might not be them who's wrong?[/quote]

Was Batth's red against Bristol a worse tackle than the one's on Jota from Wheater or Worrall? The inconsistency of decision making is poor, even within the same matches let alone across different refs. They get a lot of the big decisions incorrect IMO. VAR is needed to help lessen the risk of matches decided by poor officiating.[/quote]

I don’t remember the Wheater one, but my first thought on the Batth one was that it was a red card. The Worrall challenge on Saturday I thought was a yellow card, but I’ve not seen a replay of it

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:03 pm 
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Rozza wrote:
This nonsense will destroy football as we know it regardless of when we first knew football.


Absolutely agree 100% , I dont get it at all - needless waste of money.
One for the armchair fan who likes to moan and moan and fucking moan about everty little thing that didnt go his teams way, who thinks in some misguided way that VAR will remove all his woes...it won't.
It will be just a mechanism for the ref to hide behind.

In my opinoin the two most important rulle change would be:

i) Remove the stupd rule that says if a ref sees (menions) an incident that the decision cannot subsequently be over ruled- to do this we would all have to recognise refs can make mistakes ...even the FA & the refs themselves.

ii) Restrospective yellow cards for blatant irrefutable dives - I know there are those that will say ..."oh but he sholud then have been sent off blah blah blah" ..but hey at least it will get punished.
Maybe for clubs that have repeat offenders dock em points ...that will sort the coaching out.


oh and of course bring back tackling , since when did football become basketball.


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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:55 am 
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I'm all for VAR.

But how to use is going to take a while to get it working smooth. But like goal technology will improve the game imo.

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:19 am 
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Dan G WWFC wrote:
I'm all for VAR.

But how to use is going to take a while to get it working smooth. But like goal technology will improve the game imo.


Using a computer yes, that's my point, using another humans opinion, daft.

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:56 pm 
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The fourth official should be sat up in the stands with a TV monitor showing the game. If the ref needs help on a penno or similar, he asks the fourth official via headphones for a quick take on his TV and reply back asap. The current fourth official's role is one of just checking out the studs of players coming on as subs and putting up the time added board at the end of each half, he should be more fruitfully employed.

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:11 pm 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
The current fourth official's role is one of just checking out the studs of players coming on as subs and putting up the time added board at the end of each half, he should be more fruitfully employed.


How much does he get paid? I could do that!

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:48 am 
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Embers wrote:
gladbachwolf wrote:
The current fourth official's role is one of just checking out the studs of players coming on as subs and putting up the time added board at the end of each half, he should be more fruitfully employed.


How much does he get paid? I could do that!


Give each manager two reviews each match, they will soon get sick of their own players diving and using up those reviews.
That would change the dynamics for the cheats.

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:16 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Embers wrote:
gladbachwolf wrote:
The current fourth official's role is one of just checking out the studs of players coming on as subs and putting up the time added board at the end of each half, he should be more fruitfully employed.


How much does he get paid? I could do that!


Give each manager two reviews each match, they will soon get sick of their own players diving and using up those reviews.
That would change the dynamics for the cheats.



Yes, KK I agree on two reviews, makes sense so as not to have the game stopped every two or three minutes.

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:24 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Embers wrote:
gladbachwolf wrote:
The current fourth official's role is one of just checking out the studs of players coming on as subs and putting up the time added board at the end of each half, he should be more fruitfully employed.


How much does he get paid? I could do that!


Give each manager two reviews each match, they will soon get sick of their own players diving and using up those reviews.
That would change the dynamics for the cheats.


I like that idea too :smt023

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:34 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Embers wrote:
gladbachwolf wrote:
The current fourth official's role is one of just checking out the studs of players coming on as subs and putting up the time added board at the end of each half, he should be more fruitfully employed.


How much does he get paid? I could do that!


Give each manager two reviews each match, they will soon get sick of their own players diving and using up those reviews.
That would change the dynamics for the cheats.


or, as I sed , just punish cheats retrospectively ...all cheats and punished with cards - multiple club offenders get points deducted ...anything that stops starts the game is the thin end of the wedge.


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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:59 am 
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"]The current fourth official's role is one of just checking out the studs of players coming on as subs and putting up the time added board at the end of each half, he should be more fruitfully employed.[/quote]

How much does he get paid? I could do that![/quote]

Give each manager two reviews each match, they will soon get sick of their own players diving and using up those reviews.
That would change the dynamics for the cheats.[/quote]

I like that idea too :smt023[/quote]

It throws the onus back on the coach on the touchline to make a decision in the moment.

10 seconds, review or not to review, as their players dive and roll for the cameras.

Those players will look silly and stop diving when they realise their own coach does not back up their cheating for fear of losing a review.

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:54 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
"]The current fourth official's role is one of just checking out the studs of players coming on as subs and putting up the time added board at the end of each half, he should be more fruitfully employed.


How much does he get paid? I could do that![/quote]

Give each manager two reviews each match, they will soon get sick of their own players diving and using up those reviews.
That would change the dynamics for the cheats.[/quote]

I like that idea too :smt023[/quote]

It throws the onus back on the coach on the touchline to make a decision in the moment.

10 seconds, review or not to review, as their players dive and roll for the cameras.

Those players will look silly and stop diving when they realise their own coach does not back up their cheating for fear of losing a review.[/quote]

no they wont as its the coach letting them do it in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:33 pm 
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davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
"]The current fourth official's role is one of just checking out the studs of players coming on as subs and putting up the time added board at the end of each half, he should be more fruitfully employed.


How much does he get paid? I could do that!


Give each manager two reviews each match, they will soon get sick of their own players diving and using up those reviews.
That would change the dynamics for the cheats.[/quote]

I like that idea too :smt023[/quote]

It throws the onus back on the coach on the touchline to make a decision in the moment.

10 seconds, review or not to review, as their players dive and roll for the cameras.

Those players will look silly and stop diving when they realise their own coach does not back up their cheating for fear of losing a review.[/quote]

no they wont as its the coach letting them do it in the first place.[/quote]

Yet if the coach does not review his diving players, those players will by definition be found out.
Making mugs of both the coach and the diving players.

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:23 pm 
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Everything bad about VAR, was in the Liverpool/Albion cup game.
Albion scored and it was disallowed, and no one knew why, except the referee, surely the reason to disallow the goal, must be made public, then Liverpool attacked, and the Liverpool players appealed for a penalty?? So the ref, despite not giving it orginally, was persuaded to consult VAR..why?

Too much stop/start..rubbish

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:48 pm 
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CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
Everything bad about VAR, was in the Liverpool/Albion cup game.
Albion scored and it was disallowed, and no one knew why, except the referee, surely the reason to disallow the goal, must be made public, then Liverpool attacked, and the Liverpool players appealed for a penalty?? So the ref, despite not giving it orginally, was persuaded to consult VAR..why?

Too much stop/start..rubbish


Its great 'theatre' though :o

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 Post subject: Re: VAR
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Embers wrote:
CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
Everything bad about VAR, was in the Liverpool/Albion cup game.
Albion scored and it was disallowed, and no one knew why, except the referee, surely the reason to disallow the goal, must be made public, then Liverpool attacked, and the Liverpool players appealed for a penalty?? So the ref, despite not giving it orginally, was persuaded to consult VAR..why?

Too much stop/start..rubbish


Its great 'theatre' though :o


Its fucking bolox thats what it is :)


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