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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:37 pm 
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Gerrard has been shocking in every major international tournament he has played in but remains a cash cow for the F.A. and that's the most important thing. Rooney has scored ONE world cup finals goal and is ineffective in major competitions at an international level but the sponsor money still keeps rolling in. The F.A. could not give a flying fuck as long as the cash keeps finding it's way to F.A. headquarters. The simple thing is that the billy big bollocks premier league English 'stars' are total bottle merchants when it comes to the Euros and the world cup and are bailed out in the Champions league by the international players surrounding them. The only world class thing about these losers are their agents and media/PR representatives.

Also , we have previously failed to qualify for the Euros and World cup finals way before the inception of the premier league.


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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:32 pm 
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Redknapp manages for his own glory like most of the rest - too puffed up for my liking. It seems to me that the England team has lost belief in itself. A manager is needed who can instil that belief - a Cloughie type or even a Warnock type - not that I'm advocating either...of course.

Another problem is that English footballers are too wrapped up in the hype about their own image and I'm not sure that they really play as a team - they certainly can't find each other with a pass on a regular basis. Hart will still be around and still valuable. Sturridge and Sterling are two that I like and Henderson, the Ox, Berkley, Shaw and Wilshire with a couple of young players may turn the tide for us in the Euros. However, getting a settled back four is a priority.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:09 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
Redknapp manages for his own glory like most of the rest - too puffed up for my liking. It seems to me that the England team has lost belief in itself. A manager is needed who can instil that belief - a Cloughie type or even a Warnock type - not that I'm advocating either...of course.

Another problem is that English footballers are too wrapped up in the hype about their own image and I'm not sure that they really play as a team - they certainly can't find each other with a pass on a regular basis. Hart will still be around and still valuable. Sturridge and Sterling are two that I like and Henderson, the Ox, Berkley, Shaw and Wilshire with a couple of young players may turn the tide for us in the Euros. However, getting a settled back four is a priority.

Some decent players in there, but it ain't like when we had the likes of shearer, Campbell, Ince as old heads and had Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Gerrard, Scholes, Beckham, Lampard, Owen and Rooney between the ages of 18-25.. Things were looking good.


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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:33 am 
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Chris Waddle is really spot on there.

We took 23 players and started the same eleven twice!

Wilshere, has fitness problems, but with surely he's more suited to Sturridge's type of game than Rooney? Welbeck, what the fuck has he done to get in that team? Johnson can't defend, age has took most of his pace away thus his attacking threat, yet he plays? We hit a lot of crosses in against Uruguay, yet why did it take until 2-1 to bring on a striker known for his heading ability like Lambert?

I'm not a Rooney hater, I just believe he's a more effective number 9, but why do we insist on playing him as an attacking midfielder, where he'll try and smash pointless 40, 50 yard balls across when we have a striker, and players on the bench, and starting who prefer little balls through, like Sturridge, Barkley, Lallana, Sterling, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lampard?

It all seems like a proper bodge job, we had a good idea of how to play but we seem to have bodged the team together just to suit.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:38 am 
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Blame Wba for our woes.F****** dan ashworth technical director, his cronies filling jobs on the technical staff and then ex shit Roy.More reason to hate them.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:06 pm 
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Mike_wolf wrote:
Chris Waddle is really spot on there.

We took 23 players and started the same eleven twice!

Wilshere, has fitness problems, but with surely he's more suited to Sturridge's type of game than Rooney? Welbeck, what the fuck has he done to get in that team? Johnson can't defend, age has took most of his pace away thus his attacking threat, yet he plays? We hit a lot of crosses in against Uruguay, yet why did it take until 2-1 to bring on a striker known for his heading ability like Lambert?

I'm not a Rooney hater, I just believe he's a more effective number 9, but why do we insist on playing him as an attacking midfielder, where he'll try and smash pointless 40, 50 yard balls across when we have a striker, and players on the bench, and starting who prefer little balls through, like Sturridge, Barkley, Lallana, Sterling, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lampard?

It all seems like a proper bodge job, we had a good idea of how to play but we seem to have bodged the team together just to suit.


Hit the nail on the head. Rooney is very much like Doyle, such a good player but there are others who would be a lot more effective playing ahead of him

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:12 pm 
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BBC. Against Uruguay, England were undone by one of the Premier League's world-class imports in Liverpool's Luis Suarez, who scored twice in Thursday's 2-1 defeat in Sao Paulo.

Dyke and the FA want the top flight to be a breeding ground for more home-grown talent for the national team, not just a home for the world's elite players.

Hodgson accepts that the lack of English players cutting through might make his job harder but argues that up and coming talent in England could be benefitting from playing with the best around.

"Maybe they're learning from the talent these people bring," he said. "Who knows? Maybe in a perverse way they will get better as a result."


Dyke and the FA ought to come up with a plan for realising it and not just talking about it.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:34 pm 
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Moscow Wolf wrote:
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BBC. Against Uruguay, England were undone by one of the Premier League's world-class imports in Liverpool's Luis Suarez, who scored twice in Thursday's 2-1 defeat in Sao Paulo.

Dyke and the FA want the top flight to be a breeding ground for more home-grown talent for the national team, not just a home for the world's elite players.

Hodgson accepts that the lack of English players cutting through might make his job harder but argues that up and coming talent in England could be benefitting from playing with the best around.

"Maybe they're learning from the talent these people bring," he said. "Who knows? Maybe in a perverse way they will get better as a result."


Dyke and the FA ought to come up with a plan for realising it and not just talking about it.


Most people don't like the plans they come up with anyway. Wasn't it Dyke who was behind that plan for B teams in the lower leagues? I seem to remember a couple of people on here being in favour, but one or two (myself included) being dead against. We need to pick more players from the Ch perhaps?

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:18 pm 
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muss wrote:
Moscow Wolf wrote:
Quote:
BBC. Against Uruguay, England were undone by one of the Premier League's world-class imports in Liverpool's Luis Suarez, who scored twice in Thursday's 2-1 defeat in Sao Paulo.

Dyke and the FA want the top flight to be a breeding ground for more home-grown talent for the national team, not just a home for the world's elite players.

Hodgson accepts that the lack of English players cutting through might make his job harder but argues that up and coming talent in England could be benefitting from playing with the best around.

"Maybe they're learning from the talent these people bring," he said. "Who knows? Maybe in a perverse way they will get better as a result."


Dyke and the FA ought to come up with a plan for realising it and not just talking about it.


Most people don't like the plans they come up with anyway. Wasn't it Dyke who was behind that plan for B teams in the lower leagues? I seem to remember a couple of people on here being in favour, but one or two (myself included) being dead against. We need to pick more players from the Ch perhaps?


Personally would prefer to go back to limiting the number of non-British players you can have in your squad and field in anyone game.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:55 am 
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Moscow Wolf wrote:
muss wrote:
Most people don't like the plans they come up with anyway. Wasn't it Dyke who was behind that plan for B teams in the lower leagues? I seem to remember a couple of people on here being in favour, but one or two (myself included) being dead against. We need to pick more players from the Ch perhaps?


Personally would prefer to go back to limiting the number of non-British players you can have in your squad and field in anyone game.


Even if the will for that was there, it would likely fall foul of EU anti-discriminatory legislation as you are effectively limiting the opportunity of EU nations to take up a job.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:04 am 
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kenbarlowsslippers wrote:
Blame Wba for our woes.F****** dan ashworth technical director, his cronies filling jobs on the technical staff and then ex shit Roy.More reason to hate them.


I still haven't forgiven them for Jeff Astle and THAT miss against Brazil: The days when England took on the greatest of all teams and moved the ball around comfortably and put the fear of god into the opponent through its pure skill and sheer determination.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:24 am 
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The reason for our international ills?

The English Premier League, which is only English in the fact it's played here.

Until the figure of only 32%, and likely to keep reducing, players qualified to play for England is dramatically changed we will never compete at international level.

Take back our game.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:30 am 
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shropswolf wrote:
Moscow Wolf wrote:
muss wrote:
Most people don't like the plans they come up with anyway. Wasn't it Dyke who was behind that plan for B teams in the lower leagues? I seem to remember a couple of people on here being in favour, but one or two (myself included) being dead against. We need to pick more players from the Ch perhaps?


Personally would prefer to go back to limiting the number of non-British players you can have in your squad and field in anyone game.


Even if the will for that was there, it would likely fall foul of EU anti-discriminatory legislation as you are effectively limiting the opportunity of EU nations to take up a job.


You might have a valid point that only the EU legal eagles could sort, but nobody is advertising a job as such, clubs go and offer transfer fees to bring foreigners in. Yes, if it was done: - Centre Forward wanted, good pay and conditions, first class medical care, company car, loads of perks and the adoration of thousands of fans if you're successful then, you could not effectively stop anyone from the EU applying, but you would still negate all of the North and South Americans, Asians, Arabs, Africans, Russians, Former Yugoslavian countries etc.

The same token applies when applying for a Work Permit - as far as I am aware, you're only supposed to be able to obtain one if you cannot find a Brit to do the same job. How can that be when we've had Milijas, Gudiera, Luzniky, (sp). and so-forth, surely no better than some home-grown players we could have bought.

Is it just because at our level 'Foreign Players' are cheaper and take less wages? If so, the system needs to be completely revised. Then, at the other end of the scale, you have players like Teves on record wages whilst in England.

I'm not anti-foreign, just searching, exploring ways that might make our own National game better and bring through more home-grown players to the highest international level. However, big strong trees grow from their roots and need space to flourish.

From yesterday's surprise performances from the likes of Iran, Ghana, Nigeria etc. I'm wondering if this England team would have beaten any of them.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:31 am 
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I think England are closer now to producing International class players than any time in my lifetime, the progress is taking place.
OK for my mind I thought Roy got squad selection, team selection and team system wrong but I still see him as the bloke to lead the next generation.

The quality is just about to show itself, the future is far brighter than two International defeats would indicate.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:37 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
I think England are closer now to producing International class players than any time in my lifetime, the progress is taking place.
OK for my mind I thought Roy got squad selection, team selection and team system wrong but I still see him as the bloke to lead the next generation.

The quality is just about to show itself, the future is far brighter than two International defeats would indicate.


So, why is that Knocker, what has changed behind the scenes that has brought us closer NOW to producing International class players than any time in your lifetime - HOW do you measure the progress and what is it down to in your opinion?

Seems most of us are not seeing this or measuring this progress as you are, we see promising younger players, but you are saying we should stick with Roy even though you say he got everything wrong this tournament - don't make a lot of logic to me that. :lol:

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:45 am 
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One thing I think I have noticed is a change in mentality towards learning by the people that matter..The kids.

I see higher quality in England between 12 and 19 than any other nation i can think of, we really do have some outstanding technical/tactically aware kids coming through.

With the correct mentality.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:33 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
One thing I think I have noticed is a change in mentality towards learning by the people that matter..The kids.

I see higher quality in England between 12 and 19 than any other nation i can think of, we really do have some outstanding technical/tactically aware kids coming through.

With the correct mentality.


So, no hard evidence then and surely, to be able to learn, you need good teachers - have we got it right in our coaching curriculum nowadays? I have said it before on here, need more rough patches of of grass and facilities to get kids out kicking a ball around instead of watching it from an armchair and stuffing their faces with fast foods. Encourage kids to kick tennis sized balls around in school playgrounds and so on.

I might suggest that the British have nearly always had a great mentality (perhaps before it got watered down in the racial melting pot,) it was always something that made us such good soldiers, but for that, you also need good leaders. However, in football we appear to have become a nation of losers, we don't appear to have crossed that bridge of total belief in ourselves. Too many losses when it matters and fooked up penalty shoot-outs.

I'd love to be optimistic, but I need hard evidence that we are on the right path. Shouldn't we be doing something like the Swiss have done, building youth teams that win competitions at U16, 18 & 21 to groom them for their National team. Was this something that Stuart Pearce was meant to achieve, did achieve or failed miserably? Can't answer the question myself as hardly follow the England Youth sides.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:47 am 
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Agree or don't agree with Gary's synopsis?

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27960776

Same question of Chris Waddle's synopsis:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27954324

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:29 am 
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Coaching is changing within youth levels, for a long time would be coaches would give a ball to each kid, do a few drills then finish with a small sided game.
Waste of time stuff that just wastes time and produces coasters and thats just the coaches.

There's more science in the game now with great work being undertaken within the English FA, with some very shrewd capable people doing unseen work.

More important the Premier league clubs really do wish for the youth to progress more than any time since its inception.

The wheel has turned, more tactically smart players are coming through with the added good decision making in the moment mindset.
Players who can handle pressure situations, and are drilled to do so. At professional level its a pressure game more so than a skill game we understand that now.

You see the two United lads Smalling and Jones they are maybe 12 months behind in their development.
Give them time under a Carlos Queiroz rather than a René Meulensteen and you get that battle ready mentality.

René Meulensteen might give you a nice pastry, Carlos Queiroz gives you meat and three veg.

Small margins which made Roy Hodgson's job a tad harder this summer. Didn't help Moyes another fantastic coach last season either, small margins.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:54 am 
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We go on about the kids who were bravely chosen and taken to the world cup but they were actually the best english players in their positions in the prem and so why was it so brave to take them and play them?It's like Roy the genius has unearthed and mentored them himself when it is the clubs he has taken them from that should get the credit.
I would go as far to say they have all played at a lesser level for their country than for their respective clubs but i suppose that is not roys fault?
Also the pant wetting about taking luke shaw is about as inspired as when erikson took walcott, the only difference being shaw will get a game by default because we are already out not because roy had any intention of playing him.
Putting all those players in the squad is the easy part, that isn't rocket science, it is inspiring and motivating to get that extra 10% and having a little idea of how you knit them together.They already know how to pass, how to shoot, how to defend :oops:
Roy is the least likely to inspire or motivate to get that bit extra and play with confidence and freedom that their ability needs.Roy has shown he even isn't the safe pair of hands to organise and be tactically A1, so I am a little confused to what he brings.Any ideas anyone?

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:24 pm 
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warn wrote:
The reason for our international ills?

The English Premier League, which is only English in the fact it's played here.

Until the figure of only 32%, and likely to keep reducing, players qualified to play for England is dramatically changed we will never compete at international level.

Take back our game.


As Shrops pointed out, the first hurdle is the EU, although we won't necessarily always be in that. Then there's getting the clubs in the PL to agree.

In the meantime, Woy maybe needs to take in some Chump games.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:26 pm 
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kenbarlowsslippers wrote:
Putting all those players in the squad is the easy part, that isn't rocket science, it is inspiring and motivating to get that extra 10% and having a little idea of how you knit them together.They already know how to pass, how to shoot, how to defend :oops:


Unfortunately several of that backline do NOT know how to defend against top quality. Jagielka and Baines have not played any European football with their clubs, ditto Glen Johnson at Liverpool at least. Luis Suarez has ripped Everton's defence apart on at least 3-4 occasions in the past seasons; those players do not know how to cope with quality forwards.

That is why I said pre-tournament, we are tying our hands behind our backs in this tournament by not taking Terry and Cole, who have proven experience of shutting out quality forwards. How many goals did Suarez score past Chelsea this season? Zero, didn't even get a kick.

So if you are going to take inferior defenders, they must be very well drilled on the training pitch and seemingly our current set-up has no ability to get that right as we looked all over the shop defensively during both the competition and every warm-up game.

Look at Queiroz with Iran... had we played Argentina yesterday, Glen Johnson would've been on the halfway line while Aguero has the freedom of the flank, Cahill would've been 10 yards off Messi and Jagieka wouldn't even have spotted Di Maria storming forward and Baines would've dived in halfway up the field.

We have absolutely no defensive organisation in this current team, so we are utterly reliant on being to outscore the opposition, but have a central midfield without any goal threat or creativity at all (sorry, Gerrard is now physically incapable to offer those aspects).

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Last edited by shropswolf on Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:29 pm 
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Moscow Wolf wrote:
The same token applies when applying for a Work Permit - as far as I am aware, you're only supposed to be able to obtain one if you cannot find a Brit to do the same job. How can that be when we've had Milijas, Gudiera, Luzniky, (sp). and so-forth, surely no better than some home-grown players we could have bought.

Is it just because at our level 'Foreign Players' are cheaper and take less wages? If so, the system needs to be completely revised. Then, at the other end of the scale, you have players like Teves on record wages whilst in England.


No, you will obtain a work permit under current football legislation if the player has played in a certain % of his national team's competitive matches.

Even if the player falls short of that, the clubs can appeal on the grounds that the player is an outstanding player who will bring value to the English leagues; we did this with Milijas who hadn't enough Serbian caps but as he won the best player awards in Serbia and was nailed on to be going to the World Cup at the end of the season, the appeal worked.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:32 pm 
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Harry saying his piece now and besides what his former Spurs players did or did not do when facing an England call-up, his bit of Foreign Youth supports more or less, what others are saying about too many Foreigners in our English game, but you decide: -

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27962633

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:46 pm 
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Moscow Wolf wrote:
Harry saying his piece now and besides what his former Spurs players did or did not do when facing an England call-up, his bit of Foreign Youth supports more or less, what others are saying about too many Foreigners in our English game, but you decide: -

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27962633


Three England players when Harry was there - Lennon, Defoe and [Huddlestone (?)...don't think he played often for England] as possible candidates.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:53 pm 
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England's Failure, ex-Players, Managers have their say: -

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27963053

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:55 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
Moscow Wolf wrote:
Harry saying his piece now and besides what his former Spurs players did or did not do when facing an England call-up, his bit of Foreign Youth supports more or less, what others are saying about too many Foreigners in our English game, but you decide: -

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27962633


Three England players when Harry was there - Lennon, Defoe and [Huddlestone (?)...don't think he played often for England] as possible candidates.


Peter Crouch?

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:22 pm 
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Moscow Wolf wrote:
SELWolf wrote:
Moscow Wolf wrote:
Harry saying his piece now and besides what his former Spurs players did or did not do when facing an England call-up, his bit of Foreign Youth supports more or less, what others are saying about too many Foreigners in our English game, but you decide: -

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27962633


Three England players when Harry was there - Lennon, Defoe and [Huddlestone (?)...don't think he played often for England] as possible candidates.


Peter Crouch?


Aye - that'll be the one.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:41 pm 
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Wilkinson: "Greg Dyke's introduced all sorts of ideas and they've all been poo-pooed. Why? Because people are scared of change. If we keep doing what we've done, we'll keep getting what we've got and it will get worse."

i agree with this, every idea that has come out of the FA has been ripped to shreads.

Also can i just say, there are players for other countries who are happy to go to the world cup, even if they are on the bench, Drogba is an example, he knows he wont start be he's there. In england as soon as a player thinks he wont be starting thats it he says he is retiring, Capello found this out to his disbelief.

Also we have generations of international LOSERS, there is no belief in our country the we have any hope of winning at international level, so, for those footballers who also have the same thoughts, its a case of why bother!!

Finally its how the players are treated once a tourniment is over. The likes of Barkley, Llalana etc will never have felt this vitriol from england fans and will wonder if they think it is worth it all again

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:19 pm 
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Agree about poor team selection. Cole and Shaw ahead of Baines who is no more the future than Cole and isn't top class, Terry should have been brought back in too giving us the Chelsea back line. Anyone but Johnson, Flanagan ideally. God alone knows why Henderson ahead of Wilshire or a poor Man Us backup striker on the left wing. Things is Roy is an outdated manager who does well with underdogs, very poor World Cup. Compare the job Redknapp did with Spurs to Hodgson with Liverpool.

English football still needs to move on particularly coaching with an emphasis on tactics rather than promoting players based on physique.

It still shows the players who played a full season in the Prem look knackered in the summer tournaments, and not just the English ones. Reduce the Prem by two teams to 18 and take a two/three week break after the new year.

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