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 Post subject: Injunction....
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:51 am 
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Any legal eagles out there...?

A married couple living in same house....woman goes away on holiday with 2 kids, and the day she goes the bloke is served with 'non-molestation' order, in brief saying he can't go within 300 yards of the missus or the property and needs to go court on 16th July. She comes back from holiday next week....does he have to be out of the house by the time she gets back then?.....


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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:13 pm 
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Considering it says he can't be near her or the house, yes. I imagine it's her property and not a joint tenancy.

Non-molestation orders are very strict. One statement to the police to say he's contacted her or breached by being near the property and it's arrest, remand and court.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:59 pm 
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Mmmm... Its a jointly owned property, and as yet there has not been an 'occupation' order.... He hasn't been cautioned or charged with any domestic violence.... But he did tell her the other week that if she was a bloke he wouldve slapped her....
I'm struggling to see why he should be one to leave? What happens in court in a couple of weeks?


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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:31 pm 
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He doesn't need to be charged with any offences for a non-molestation order to be in place. There has to be some sort of evidence of abuse or risk to the applicant though, as courts won't just grant it on a whim. The court date will be when he can put his defence forward and argue his point.

If the notice has already been issued then the courts have deemed there is sufficient risk to issue the order without him being present, to safeguard the applicant. If there wasn't sufficient risk then the court date would have been when both parties argue, but in this case i'd imagine the applicant has already put their side forward.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:39 pm 
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Blimey....so he doesn't get chance to challenge her allegations before he has to leave his own home??


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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:08 pm 
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nuttymate wrote:
Blimey....so he doesn't get chance to challenge her allegations before he has to leave his own home??


As i said, the courts will only issue in his absence if they feel there is a risk.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Sorry Muz for being so persistent, and I will be seeking legal advice....but I've just read that an occupation order is needed to exclude/remove someone from their own home.... So how can the non molestation order be upheld if the woman intends to return to the marital home? If he is currently residing in property could he change locks for example and force her to seek alternative accommodation when she comes back?
Its going to be virtually impossible to find him somewhere to live in 2 days... :?


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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:21 pm 
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He will need to speak with his solicitor. If it's a joint tenancy or a mortgage with both names then he needs to seek advice.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:23 pm 
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Your case does not make any sense nutty. The woman in question MUST have already applied to a court for an injunction and had it granted by that court prior to her going on holiday?
The circumstances that you give are paltry in the extreme, I know that domestic violence is now a growth business within the Police. Several senior officers have become more senior by inventing ever more bizarre and barmy ways of always locking the bloke up, regardless of what he may or may not have done.
I am no expert in civil or family law, but using the example you give about her "Being a bloke" etc, I tend to think that not even the wettest judge or magistrates would grant an injunction based solely on that evidence alone.

This is a reasonable website with up to date information.. http://www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic-vi ... 0100330002

The likes of me and Muz would never really get involved in the whole process of injunctions, unless Muz was using his breach of the peace powers or acting on a court given power of arrest. The whole remit of civil law protection and safeguarding lies within the remit of the PPU, Public Protection Unit, I doubt muz would enter into their world of fun, indeed, I have spent the last 22 years avoiding the PPU like the plague, cos it tay proper Policing you see.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:47 pm 
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Thank you Mr Rozza.... It seems the priority the last few days has been making sure the chap in question doesn't top himself...but he's gonna have to get a grip and deal with some of this...
Yes the missus got it all sorted before she went away, and you would pee yourself if you saw her allegations.....'He stands close enough for me to feel his breath' is about the par....
I guess I'm just confused as to why he has to be out of the house by time she gets back...but I'll have to drag him to solicitor PDQ I reckon....


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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:59 pm 
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Rozza wrote:
Your case does not make any sense nutty. The woman in question MUST have already applied to a court for an injunction and had it granted by that court prior to her going on holiday?
The circumstances that you give are paltry in the extreme, I know that domestic violence is now a growth business within the Police. Several senior officers have become more senior by inventing ever more bizarre and barmy ways of always locking the bloke up, regardless of what he may or may not have done.
I am no expert in civil or family law, but using the example you give about her "Being a bloke" etc, I tend to think that not even the wettest judge or magistrates would grant an injunction based solely on that evidence alone.

This is a reasonable website with up to date information.. http://www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic-vi ... 0100330002

The likes of me and Muz would never really get involved in the whole process of injunctions, unless Muz was using his breach of the peace powers or acting on a court given power of arrest. The whole remit of civil law protection and safeguarding lies within the remit of the PPU, Public Protection Unit, I doubt muz would enter into their world of fun, indeed, I have spent the last 22 years avoiding the PPU like the plague, cos it tay proper Policing you see.


I have to recommend it to pretty much every job i go to nowadays. Either that or i am arresting for breaches. Like ime and Roz have said, there's got to be a fairly decent bit of evidence for a magistrate to grant in his absence.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:12 pm 
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Muz wrote:
Rozza wrote:
Your case does not make any sense nutty. The woman in question MUST have already applied to a court for an injunction and had it granted by that court prior to her going on holiday?
The circumstances that you give are paltry in the extreme, I know that domestic violence is now a growth business within the Police. Several senior officers have become more senior by inventing ever more bizarre and barmy ways of always locking the bloke up, regardless of what he may or may not have done.
I am no expert in civil or family law, but using the example you give about her "Being a bloke" etc, I tend to think that not even the wettest judge or magistrates would grant an injunction based solely on that evidence alone.

This is a reasonable website with up to date information.. http://www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic-vi ... 0100330002

The likes of me and Muz would never really get involved in the whole process of injunctions, unless Muz was using his breach of the peace powers or acting on a court given power of arrest. The whole remit of civil law protection and safeguarding lies within the remit of the PPU, Public Protection Unit, I doubt muz would enter into their world of fun, indeed, I have spent the last 22 years avoiding the PPU like the plague, cos it tay proper Policing you see.


I have to recommend it to pretty much every job i go to nowadays. Either that or i am arresting for breaches. Like ime and Roz have said, there's got to be a fairly decent bit of evidence for a magistrate to grant in his absence.


Mate, I feel your pain. This area of Policing is so lob sided it is now bordering on the insane. How many times have you or your colleagues have had to take, erm, "positive action" when at a domestic?
Positive action being, locking the male up whether he has done anything at all, may have done anything, could possibly do something at a later date, or looks like he may do something at some point sometime ever.
Why do we do it?, because it MIGHT go tits up at a later date.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:48 pm 
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Muz wrote:
there's got to be a fairly decent bit of evidence for a magistrate to grant in his absence.
.....
Think its called 'ex parte'? He didnt have to be there and was completely unaware......I've seen the paperwork and I'm struggling to see the 'decent bit of evidence'....
I've never been involved in a case like this so guess I need to learn :roll:


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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:03 pm 
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nuttymate wrote:
Muz wrote:
there's got to be a fairly decent bit of evidence for a magistrate to grant in his absence.
.....
Think its called 'ex parte'? He didnt have to be there and was completely unaware......I've seen the paperwork and I'm struggling to see the 'decent bit of evidence'....
I've never been involved in a case like this so guess I need to learn :roll:


ex parte is used in a lot of court proceedings.It generally means that evidence is presented to a judge in chambers, or outside the 'open' court.He or she then makes a decision based on the evidence provided.

I don't know what you are getting involved in here nutty, so I wont pass judgement, but what you write about what you are being told don't add up.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:06 am 
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Our law is pretty much the same as yours.

Ex-parte injunctions require a demonstrative need for urgency to be applied.

Some evidence of the immediate need must have been given to the court............................................ A return to the family home ?

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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:29 pm 
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Jeez....doesn't seem important now...but I saw paperwork again today. Ex parte non-molestation AND occupation order. I think she's done a cracking job of portraying him as an abusive partner....she is scared for safety of herself and kids, due to fact he threatened to hit her if she were a bloke.... Served day she went on holiday, and she returns Thursday. When I saw him today I advised immediate legal advice prior to court on Monday....
As it is I was concerned about his mental health....no fecking beds available... received weird text from him couple of hours ago which was enough to make me suspicious. Rallied the troops and he is now having his stomach pumped....

I wonder sometimes you know how people sleep at night....


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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:47 am 
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Nutty you clearly have a personal involvement so cannot really be objective in the case. I don't know either of them, so won't pass comment.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Muz wrote:
Nutty you clearly have a personal involvement so cannot really be objective in the case. I don't know either of them, so won't pass comment.

Wasn't really looking for opinion Muz, just trying to find info re the process of these things. As it is I've got meeting with a solicitor tomorrow so should be able to clarify things a bit...
I guess I am involved, and my opinions re work matters are only ever based on fact and evidence. I work hard at not letting 'feelings' overtake me. Some days are more successful than others.... Anyway, good learning for me as previous cases have never involved a couple who are still living together....


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 Post subject: Re: Injunction....
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:32 pm 
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Turned out to be worth the read and now I am interested to know what happened in this case, did the Husband top himself, did he leave the family home, is he mentally ill; what were the true grounds for the molestation order and so on.

What tangled lives folk live. At least out here I can take my chainsaw or axe and get my frustrations out on some stubborn log without having to resort to the if 'you were a bloke I'd thump you' route. Many a bloke would just thump out and be done with it if the frustration and situation was so bad.

All of YOU trying to keep the peace do your best, but your country seems well fucked up not only by its residents, but by the pettiness of its rules and regulations.

Where do did/do you fit into all of this Nutty?

I'll be back later to read the answers, but first I have to go shoot my neighbour as one of his chickens has wondered on to my land. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Injunction....
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:36 pm 
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Well hellooooo Mr Moscow Sir....I've just got back from my annual meditative stint in the Himalayas, but first day back at work today which I spent in court with the client involved just for directions hearing really....

Not much to report back, other than barrister advised him not to fight the occupancy order, as he'd never afford mortgage on his own anyway....but he will contest non molestation order as in words of barrister 'its crap'....
The soon to be ex missus has stopped him from seeing kids as she wants full report on his mental health. Our report will say there have never been any risks identified towards anyone. There is one incident which was attended by police but they took no further action....Too long to go into all the details but my own opinion is that she wanted a divorce and didn't have bottle to just tell him and thought this way was preferable. He's accidentally bumped into his kids a couple of times and is contacting them by text (they're not part of non molestation order), but his missus says kids are traumatised and dont want to see him. Again, no evidence of this so CAFCAS, a kind of mediation service will have to speak to kids and report back. Process going to take weeks and he's desperate to see his kids.....
She'll have a shock when he files for divorce next week, cos I really think she's expecting him to just carry on paying mortgage and bills, but as neither of them can pay for house court will probably rule that its sold....


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 Post subject: Re: Injunction....
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:48 am 
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Blimey....these things drag on don't they?
Spent practically the whole day yesterday in court with my client, only for him to be told 'No you cant see or phone the kids at Xmas', and 'Here's a £75 bill for a broken fence and would you like to pay?'.....

He hasn't seen his kids since July now, due to allegations of his 'drunken, drug induced, violent behaviour'... I'm really trying to be objective but so far it seems his ex missus is holding all the cards and he's jumping through hoops trying to prove his innocence.

Do these things usually fall in favour of the woman?


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 Post subject: Re: Injunction....
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:10 am 
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nuttymate wrote:
Blimey....these things drag on don't they?
Spent practically the whole day yesterday in court with my client, only for him to be told 'No you cant see or phone the kids at Xmas', and 'Here's a £75 bill for a broken fence and would you like to pay?'.....

He hasn't seen his kids since July now, due to allegations of his 'drunken, drug induced, violent behaviour'... I'm really trying to be objective but so far it seems his ex missus is holding all the cards and he's jumping through hoops trying to prove his innocence.

Do these things usually fall in favour of the woman?


Only in about 120% of the times mate, regardless of how awry the female is, the bloke is ALWAYS fucked over.It's the safest way ay it.

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 Post subject: Re: Injunction....
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:13 pm 
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To quote another thread..'That cor be right...'

The cheeky mare even told him what to get kids for Xmas.....2 Ipads andf 2 Iphones....
But I did nearly choke when she asked for 75 quid for a bust fence panel??? :shock:

Can't wait for the divorce haggling... :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Injunction....
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:08 pm 
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During the last 6 months, where has this man been living since he was forced out of the marital house? Does he have a job, where does he get money from to buy iPads and repair fences etc.

Will he not be obligated by Law to support his children until they're 18 or if he can't, does the State pick up the tab. Plus, what about the mortgage after his pending divorce, who will be responsible for that?

I hope he fairs better than I did during my first divorce after 17 years of marriage. Although there were no kids, no legal battles and certainly no Court orders, I left my former home with two full suitcases. I had to laugh as British Airways charged me excess baggage to take them to Moscow. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Injunction....
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:18 am 
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Just to try and conclude this a bit for you Mossie...
Bloke in question returned to court in Feb, and was granted a contact order with his kids.....he is allowed to write one letter a week.
The judge did not think face to face meetings would be appropriate as ex missus has made allegations re drug and alcohol use. (client did do hair strand test which showed no excessive alcohol and no drugs in last 6 months).
A report by Cafcas (a kind of mediation service) completed a report but failed to contact my client for his views.
Client is still not allowed back into his own home to get his belongings.
Police logs showed no offences, even tho ex missus had contacted them dozens of times.
Advice from solicitor was very much 'go away, get discharged from mental health services, and come back in 6 months'.
Client is still living with his mum, he can't afford to rent anywhere as he is paying interest on mortgage out of benefits. He is also paying £5 child maintenance.

The divorce is still to come, and it seems he will be responsible for housing kids, but as both him and his ex are on benefits and neither can afford the mortgage, the solicitor offered no suggestion as to what might happen. I (naively) thought that house would be sold and profits split, but seems its not that straightforward.

My own feeling is that the solicitor did not present all relevant information, and I've advised him to seek another opinion and clarify when he can return to court, legal aid status, what happens if kids ask to see him, options for house.
But for the time being he can write a letter every week..... :?


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 Post subject: Re: Injunction....
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:52 pm 
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nuttymate wrote:
Just to try and conclude this a bit for you Mossie...
Bloke in question returned to court in Feb, and was granted a contact order with his kids.....he is allowed to write one letter a week.
The judge did not think face to face meetings would be appropriate as ex missus has made allegations re drug and alcohol use. (client did do hair strand test which showed no excessive alcohol and no drugs in last 6 months).
A report by Cafcas (a kind of mediation service) completed a report but failed to contact my client for his views.
Client is still not allowed back into his own home to get his belongings.
Police logs showed no offences, even tho ex missus had contacted them dozens of times.
Advice from solicitor was very much 'go away, get discharged from mental health services, and come back in 6 months'.
Client is still living with his mum, he can't afford to rent anywhere as he is paying interest on mortgage out of benefits. He is also paying £5 child maintenance.

The divorce is still to come, and it seems he will be responsible for housing kids, but as both him and his ex are on benefits and neither can afford the mortgage, the solicitor offered no suggestion as to what might happen. I (naively) thought that house would be sold and profits split, but seems its not that straightforward.

My own feeling is that the solicitor did not present all relevant information, and I've advised him to seek another opinion and clarify when he can return to court, legal aid status, what happens if kids ask to see him, options for house.
But for the time being he can write a letter every week..... :?


harsh on the dude, i don't know what i do if i couldn't see my kids. even though theyre a pain in the arse!

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 Post subject: Re: Injunction....
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:12 pm 
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nuttymate wrote:
Just to try and conclude this a bit for you Mossie...
Bloke in question returned to court in Feb, and was granted a contact order with his kids.....he is allowed to write one letter a week.
The judge did not think face to face meetings would be appropriate as ex missus has made allegations re drug and alcohol use. (client did do hair strand test which showed no excessive alcohol and no drugs in last 6 months).
A report by Cafcas (a kind of mediation service) completed a report but failed to contact my client for his views.
Client is still not allowed back into his own home to get his belongings.
Police logs showed no offences, even tho ex missus had contacted them dozens of times.
Advice from solicitor was very much 'go away, get discharged from mental health services, and come back in 6 months'.
Client is still living with his mum, he can't afford to rent anywhere as he is paying interest on mortgage out of benefits. He is also paying £5 child maintenance.

The divorce is still to come, and it seems he will be responsible for housing kids, but as both him and his ex are on benefits and neither can afford the mortgage, the solicitor offered no suggestion as to what might happen. I (naively) thought that house would be sold and profits split, but seems its not that straightforward.

My own feeling is that the solicitor did not present all relevant information, and I've advised him to seek another opinion and clarify when he can return to court, legal aid status, what happens if kids ask to see him, options for house.
But for the time being he can write a letter every week..... :?


Thanks for taking the time to update this subject. I have to say that it looks a complete and utter mess and I can fully understand why some folk top themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Injunction....
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Rozza...do you ever frequent this place...?
Just wondered if when this chaps non-mol and occupancy order are up, and he wants to return to the house to collect belongings, could he ask for an officer to accompany him?
And if she refuses to give him his stuff could he say she's 'stolen' them?


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 Post subject: Re: Injunction....
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:51 pm 
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nuttymate wrote:
Rozza...do you ever frequent this place...?
Just wondered if when this chaps non-mol and occupancy order are up, and he wants to return to the house to collect belongings, could he ask for an officer to accompany him?
And if she refuses to give him his stuff could he say she's 'stolen' them?


Yes and no basically Ma'am. If there were a history of domestic erm, conflict shall we say, and conflict is expected when he returns, he can quite legitimately ask the local OB to accompany him to prevent a Breach OF The Peace.
Whether they will or not will depend on the resource levels and or the disposition of the duty Sergeant or the control room.

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 Post subject: Re: Injunction....
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:51 pm 
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Cheers Mr Rozza.... As I've mentioned, there are actually no logged domestic incidents, and he didn't challenge anything in court cos priority was child contact....
He's a DJ, and all his decks and stuff are at house...and he wants them!
I'll try and sweet talk a boy in blue.... :wink:


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