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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:24 pm 
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England have never lost at the WACA after making 300 in the first innings.

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:30 am 
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3.27 it's snowing in Cannock, but the sun is out at the wacca....
200 partnership and a ton for Johnny

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:08 am 
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The pitch looks flat and so do we

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:04 am 
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England doing well trying to make the 3rd test competitive.

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:47 am 
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Great shame the inevitable collapse of the tail occurred at least one wicket too early. MO is obviously suffering

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:30 pm 
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Difference between the teams so far is the captains, Smith scoring well, Root out of touch. Add to this that their bowlers are performing on their types of surfaces at home and there you go. Australia will amass 550+ and then we will implode again in our second innings, three nil to them I reckon.

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:04 am 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
Difference between the teams so far is the captains, Smith scoring well, Root out of touch. Add to this that their bowlers are performing on their types of surfaces at home and there you go. Australia will amass 550+ and then we will implode again in our second innings, three nil to them I reckon.


Disagree that the difference is the captains, they have outperformed us in all areas - look at it man for man. The only reason that our batsman are up in the top run scorers for the series is that they've batted at least one extra innings. Look at the averages:

Bowling wickets / averages
Starc 18 @20 | Anderson 8 @28
Hazlewood 10 @30 | Overton 6 @27
Cummins 9 @31 | Broad 5 @43
Lyon 12 @27 | Moeen 2 @112 and Woakes 7 @39

Batting averages
Bancroft 31.5 | Cook 13.2
Warner 49 | Stoneman 38
Khawaja 33.5 | Vince 25.4
Smith 139.5 | Root 32.4
Handscomb 20.7 | Malan 49.6
Marsh 101.5 | Moeen 21
Paine 27 | Bairstow 45.5
Starc 10.7 | Woakes 13.2
Cummins 48.5 | Overton 25
Lyon 16.5 | Broad 9
Hazlewood 4.5 | Anderson 5

(also Ball with 15 @7.5, and Mitchell Marsh yet to bat)

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:31 am 
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Its a study in character with this England side, how many will slip into the background with a wimper.

How many of them will be mentally strong enough to face it head on.

The Aussies wont back off.

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:40 am 
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CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
England have never lost at the WACA after making 300 in the first innings.



Well.......first time for everything

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:50 am 
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This is my take on the unsuccessful ashes tour so far..

1.Pace - We don't have any really quick bowlers, and we are unlikely to ever.
The climate and the pitches are not suitable to produce fast bowlers in the UK.
In England, next summer, in conditions that suit, our bowlers will look good again.

2.Batting - We have not scored enough runs. Our big players have not fired..Cook, Root, and Mo

3.Mental Strength - We just don't have it..

4. Steve Smith - Born of an English Mother, he holds a British passport???

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:55 am 
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We sent a slightly ageing attack who can still make the ball sing on green tracks to Australia, where pace is king and waiting for the ball to "reverse" is like waiting for Knocker to vote Tory.

We sent a batsmen who can spin it a bit as our frontline spinner. Damages his finger, damages his confidence in what he does best...Batting.

We chopped and changed our order at whims. We seem to have a powerful clique in the dressing room which has far too much say.

Worst of all. A man who could have made a difference has been involved in something for which he has not been found guilty. The selectors declared him guilty by not picking him, the only man we had left with a bit of mongrel in his spine. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty ?

FUBAR

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:03 pm 
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The whole Ben Stokes issue is a joke..poorly handled by the ECB.
But no one is more to blame than Stokes himself, you let yourself and your country down.

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:20 pm 
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CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
The whole Ben Stokes issue is a joke..poorly handled by the ECB.
But no one is more to blame than Stokes himself, you let yourself and your country down.
This whole series has been reminiscent of the last whitewash where the team's conduct was called into question, remember Freddie Flintoff disappearing off on that pedalo and needing to be rescued? They're a joke, the lot of them.

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:24 pm 
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Cally wrote:
CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
The whole Ben Stokes issue is a joke..poorly handled by the ECB.
But no one is more to blame than Stokes himself, you let yourself and your country down.
This whole series has been reminiscent of the last whitewash where the team's conduct was called into question, remember Freddie Flintoff disappearing off on that pedalo and needing to be rescued? They're a joke, the lot of them.

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The last white wash was 2013/14 - are you meaning this or 2006/07?

If you mean 2006/07 (the one with Freddie Flintoff), then I don't think that's a fair comparison. That was against an Australian team with probably 5 all time greats (Hayden, Ponting, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath), plus a number of other world class players (Langer, Clarke, Hussey, Clark, Lee). Comparatively, we were without our captain (Michael Vaughan) and Marcus Trescothick pulled out on the eve of the series.

I don't remember there being indiscipline on that tour - the pedalo incident was during the World Cup that happened after the Ashes. There were incidents during the World Cup (I remember Jon Lewis being in trouble for something), but I'm not sure what happened during the Ashes itself.

I'm also not sure about questioning the conduct of the team on this tour. The Stokes incident happened well before it started, while the Bairstow headbutt was a non-event that was only ever known about because the stump-mics picked up the players talking about it. Ben Duckett, who was sent home, was part of the Lions squad, not part of the Ashes squad. I do question the decision for them to go back to the same bar as the Bairstow headbutt, and I'm fairly certain that the drink tipping was part of a drinking game, but that would happen on every tour

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:40 pm 
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toomb wrote:
Cally wrote:
CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
The whole Ben Stokes issue is a joke..poorly handled by the ECB.
But no one is more to blame than Stokes himself, you let yourself and your country down.
This whole series has been reminiscent of the last whitewash where the team's conduct was called into question, remember Freddie Flintoff disappearing off on that pedalo and needing to be rescued? They're a joke, the lot of them.

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The last white wash was 2013/14 - are you meaning this or 2006/07?

If you mean 2006/07 (the one with Freddie Flintoff), then I don't think that's a fair comparison. That was against an Australian team with probably 5 all time greats (Hayden, Ponting, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath), plus a number of other world class players (Langer, Clarke, Hussey, Clark, Lee). Comparatively, we were without our captain (Michael Vaughan) and Marcus Trescothick pulled out on the eve of the series.

I don't remember there being indiscipline on that tour - the pedalo incident was during the World Cup that happened after the Ashes. There were incidents during the World Cup (I remember Jon Lewis being in trouble for something), but I'm not sure what happened during the Ashes itself.

I'm also not sure about questioning the conduct of the team on this tour. The Stokes incident happened well before it started, while the Bairstow headbutt was a non-event that was only ever known about because the stump-mics picked up the players talking about it. Ben Duckett, who was sent home, was part of the Lions squad, not part of the Ashes squad. I do question the decision for them to go back to the same bar as the Bairstow headbutt, and I'm fairly certain that the drink tipping was part of a drinking game, but that would happen on every tour


Sorry, I meant the 06/07 series and I must be thinking of the World Cup, not the Ashes so my mistake.

I still think the players should watch how they are behaving though, it never looks good and when the media get a hold of these incidents, they can blow up unnecessarily as has happened with the supposed 'headbutt'. At the end of the day, they are professionals and these things should not be happening. I know they're on tour and away from home for Christmas, I might even be able to forgive a bit of fun if they are playing well, but they're not. There's a picture of a couple of them having a laugh and joke during today's play, it's like they don't care that they're letting themselves down.

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:08 pm 
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Cally wrote:
toomb wrote:
Cally wrote:
This whole series has been reminiscent of the last whitewash where the team's conduct was called into question, remember Freddie Flintoff disappearing off on that pedalo and needing to be rescued? They're a joke, the lot of them.

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The last white wash was 2013/14 - are you meaning this or 2006/07?

If you mean 2006/07 (the one with Freddie Flintoff), then I don't think that's a fair comparison. That was against an Australian team with probably 5 all time greats (Hayden, Ponting, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath), plus a number of other world class players (Langer, Clarke, Hussey, Clark, Lee). Comparatively, we were without our captain (Michael Vaughan) and Marcus Trescothick pulled out on the eve of the series.

I don't remember there being indiscipline on that tour - the pedalo incident was during the World Cup that happened after the Ashes. There were incidents during the World Cup (I remember Jon Lewis being in trouble for something), but I'm not sure what happened during the Ashes itself.

I'm also not sure about questioning the conduct of the team on this tour. The Stokes incident happened well before it started, while the Bairstow headbutt was a non-event that was only ever known about because the stump-mics picked up the players talking about it. Ben Duckett, who was sent home, was part of the Lions squad, not part of the Ashes squad. I do question the decision for them to go back to the same bar as the Bairstow headbutt, and I'm fairly certain that the drink tipping was part of a drinking game, but that would happen on every tour


Sorry, I meant the 06/07 series and I must be thinking of the World Cup, not the Ashes so my mistake.

I still think the players should watch how they are behaving though, it never looks good and when the media get a hold of these incidents, they can blow up unnecessarily as has happened with the supposed 'headbutt'. At the end of the day, they are professionals and these things should not be happening. I know they're on tour and away from home for Christmas, I might even be able to forgive a bit of fun if they are playing well, but they're not. There's a picture of a couple of them having a laugh and joke during today's play, it's like they don't care that they're letting themselves down.

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The World Cup happened immediately after the Ashes, which did mean the players involved had a fairly punishing schedule that winter. Trying to remove this is why we played 2 series in a row in 2013-2014.

I didn't see the pictures of them having a laugh and a joke today, so can't comment on that image. But I do think there needs to be a bit of slack. They are away for a couple of months, such is the life of an international cricketer. There have been more than enough cricketers with depression and other such issues over the last couple of decades

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:48 pm 
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suiging wrote:
CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
England have never lost at the WACA after making 300 in the first innings.



Well.......first time for everything


I've asked for some rain

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:32 am 
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CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
suiging wrote:
CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
England have never lost at the WACA after making 300 in the first innings.



Well.......first time for everything


I've asked for some rain


2 days please! Ironic that we asked for a couple of batters to get hundreds, which they duly did, batting beautifully, and we're still going to get smashed. Watching our lower order stepping away from the ball, and surrendering so meekly, is woeful. Got fecking BT Sport too, but I shall watch no more...

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Embers wrote:
2 days please! Ironic that we asked for a couple of batters to get hundreds, which they duly did, batting beautifully, and we're still going to get smashed. Watching our lower order stepping away from the ball, and surrendering so meekly, is woeful. Got fecking BT Sport too, but I shall watch no more...


Blaming the lower order is harsh, considering Root and Cook have scored a total of 55 runs this Test averaging 13.75. Collapsing from 368-4 to 403 all out isn't ideal, but being 131-4 is arguably as big a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:19 pm 
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toomb wrote:
Embers wrote:
2 days please! Ironic that we asked for a couple of batters to get hundreds, which they duly did, batting beautifully, and we're still going to get smashed. Watching our lower order stepping away from the ball, and surrendering so meekly, is woeful. Got fecking BT Sport too, but I shall watch no more...


Blaming the lower order is harsh, considering Root and Cook have scored a total of 55 runs this Test averaging 13.75. Collapsing from 368-4 to 403 all out isn't ideal, but being 131-4 is arguably as big a problem.


I'm not blaming the bottom order for our woes, not at all, and you're right about the likes of Cook not stepping up to the plate, but my point was more to with the scared manner the way the lower order are batting. Whilst they're picked to take wickets, surely they must be expected to be able to stand up, and bat correctly, and show some guts? Do they have a net? Don't they practice with the bowling machine? The demise of Broad as a batter, is a crying shame, as he used to be a bonafide all-rounder.

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Cook and Root..the two senior men you want to make runs and set the standards......both have failed miserably. Not good enough by a mile.

Anderson and Broad....great in swinging conditions but no hot pace that is essential in Australia, not their fault, a shame that Toby Roland-Jones was unfit, he would have been very interesting in this series. Steven Finn also would have got good bounce here.

Overton and Woakes, good medium pacers but that is not required Down Under, again not their fault.

Stokes: enough said...shot himself and his team in the foot.

Stoneman, Vince and Malan...not top notch but at least trying their best.

Bairstow: Doing his best and a reliable player in trying circumstances.

Moeen- Overhyped and being exposed now....a lot was left on his shoulders once the Stokes scenario played out.


the Selectors: NOW, there is the root of our problem, short sighted, gutless and lacking vision...in fact so much so that the TEAM is playing like them..!!!


Add Stokes, Bell, Compton and Finn to the squad and surely we would do better, not saying we would win the Ashes but at least give it a better go...too late though, the Ashes will be over inside three hours tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:15 pm 
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But we have the power of the weather. A massive thunderstorm followed by heavy rain could see us through and then we will turn it all around in the next 2 matches. - Or not. :lol:

Our bowling is ineffective in these conditions but our 2 class batsman have let us down and the other 3 newcomers, with the exception of 1 innings from Malan have flattered to deceive.

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:37 pm 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
the Selectors: NOW, there is the root of our problem, short sighted, gutless and lacking vision...in fact so much so that the TEAM is playing like them..!!!


Who will make required changes at the ECB :?:

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:44 pm 
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Embers wrote:
gladbachwolf wrote:
the Selectors: NOW, there is the root of our problem, short sighted, gutless and lacking vision...in fact so much so that the TEAM is playing like them..!!!


Who will make required changes at the ECB :?:


The selectors are an issue, but who really should have been picked instead? Not like there's a surfeit of 90mph bowlers sitting around country cricket twiddling their thumbs at the moment.

I think the problem is deeper than that; the ECB focus is very much around the shorter form of the game. Trying to build that block into the middle of the season has meant that the County Championship is starting earlier and earlier. The new seasons starts 13 April, and 5 of Worcs 14 games this year will have been played by the end of May. Why should clubs develop pace bowlers who break down and get injured, when a 70mph swing bowler is all you need?

And then this has a knock on effect, in that if there are no 90mph bowlers, then our batsmen don't face them until they are exposed at international cricket

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:49 pm 
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toomb wrote:
Embers wrote:
gladbachwolf wrote:
the Selectors: NOW, there is the root of our problem, short sighted, gutless and lacking vision...in fact so much so that the TEAM is playing like them..!!!


Who will make required changes at the ECB :?:


The selectors are an issue, but who really should have been picked instead? Not like there's a surfeit of 90mph bowlers sitting around country cricket twiddling their thumbs at the moment.

I think the problem is deeper than that; the ECB focus is very much around the shorter form of the game. Trying to build that block into the middle of the season has meant that the County Championship is starting earlier and earlier. The new seasons starts 13 April, and 5 of Worcs 14 games this year will have been played by the end of May. Why should clubs develop pace bowlers who break down and get injured, when a 70mph swing bowler is all you need?

And then this has a knock on effect, in that if there are no 90mph bowlers, then our batsmen don't face them until they are exposed at international cricket


Good point well made. However, shouldn't we then decimate any other nation not prepared for our conditions when them come to our backyard ?

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:54 pm 
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suiging wrote:
toomb wrote:

The selectors are an issue, but who really should have been picked instead? Not like there's a surfeit of 90mph bowlers sitting around country cricket twiddling their thumbs at the moment.

I think the problem is deeper than that; the ECB focus is very much around the shorter form of the game. Trying to build that block into the middle of the season has meant that the County Championship is starting earlier and earlier. The new seasons starts 13 April, and 5 of Worcs 14 games this year will have been played by the end of May. Why should clubs develop pace bowlers who break down and get injured, when a 70mph swing bowler is all you need?

And then this has a knock on effect, in that if there are no 90mph bowlers, then our batsmen don't face them until they are exposed at international cricket


Good point well made. However, shouldn't we then decimate any other nation not prepared for our conditions when them come to our backyard ?


Well, we've lost 3 home series in the last 10 years. Sri Lanka we could easily have won (the draw we could have turned into a win, and the loss was with 2 balls left). The other 2 were to South Africa, who have an excellent record away from home

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;home_or_away=1;orderby=start;orderbyad=reverse;team=1;template=results;type=team;view=series

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:29 pm 
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I don't watch that much cricket these days so the Ashes series brings fresh players to my notice.

My interpretation of the current England squad is that 20 or 30 years ago this would have been a limited over squad.

Batsmen and Bowlers just don't seem to have those long game disciplines.

A lots being said about express speed, I just don't see a consistent pitched up line and length.

Or when batting the ability to just leave the ball.

Getting the basics right would be half the battle.

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:38 pm 
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Utter humiliation, bring them home now. A disgrace to the nation.

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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:24 pm 
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We have huge issues when there's no lateral movement in bowling teams out. Once Anderson and Broad are blunted we're basically a team of all-rounders. I'm a huge fan of Moeen Ali but he's not a front line spinner. Need to find a top class spinner and some pace who can pry out batsmen even on flat pitches.

Cook seems to have lost it and his once amazing average is dropping by the test match. Down to 45ish now, use to be 50+ . Root failed last time we toured Australia too. All in all not great lol.

I shudder to think how we're going to do when Anderson and Broad retire in the not too distant future.

Never mind the batting.


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 Post subject: Re: England Cricket team
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Simple game in Melbourne. Take 20 wickets and win.........essy eh

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The Wolf will always be free to its members, but if you feel you would like to contribute towards the running costs, than please feel free to donate.

 

 

Disclaimer : This forum is for the general discussion/topic of Wolverhampton Wanderers. What is said within the forum is personal opinions, and The Wolf will not be held responsible. Your ip is logged for security reasons. The forum is viewable by the public and any topics you disclose/discuss can be viewed by the public. Some topics on this forum may only be suitable for those aged 18+.

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