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 Post subject: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:50 am 
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If you suffered allergic reactions to certain foods would you risk buying a sandwich produced by someone else.

There's not a chance that I would buy for myself or anyone else anything that could create problems.

Produce your own, know every ingredient, eat safe.

Why Risk it?

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:37 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
If you suffered allergic reactions to certain foods would you risk buying a sandwich produced by someone else.

There's not a chance that I would buy for myself or anyone else anything that could create problems.

Produce your own, know every ingredient, eat safe.

Why Risk it?


Absolutely. The parents, one year later, have placed all the blame on someone else. How did people with allergies survive in our parents times?

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:15 pm 
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A very fair comment in such a sad affair. However, if you or your child have a serious, life threatening allergy, you do NOT buy sandwiches / foods that may court danger.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:37 pm 
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All a tad sanctimonious aren't we?
I don't think it too much to ask for known allergens to be identified in no ambiguous terms.
Why should anyone with allergies not be able to purchase in the same way as their friends?

Pret had been made aware of these concerns several times previously ...They take the profit without any responsibility?


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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:13 pm 
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The law doesn't help in this case. It is deficient to allow sandwich sellers such as Pret to act as they do. In the end though if the young lady couldn't see any ingredients listed it isn't worth the risk. I feel sorry for all concerned. Heartbreaking.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:22 am 
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Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
The law doesn't help in this case. It is deficient to allow sandwich sellers such as Pret to act as they do. In the end though if the young lady couldn't see any ingredients listed it isn't worth the risk. I feel sorry for all concerned. Heartbreaking.



I think you will be able to find someone who is allergic to every ingredient in any food. The store it would seem ( not at the inquest, so an assumption ) did not individually mark the product as carrying one of 14 known serious allergens, as they were not required to do so by EU law. I know it is harsh, but the young lady and her parents, were aware of her problems and it would seem knew the regulations in place, so why did they take the risk ?

Returning from me hols, I was impressed with the way you couldn't book a table in a decent restaurant without first being asked about your allergies. This seemed appropriate and welcome. Buying from fast food outlets in the UK, which do not by European law have to take the same measures, must be fraught with danger for sufferers, so again why risk it without doing your own research, by perhaps asking the question before purchase ?

A terrible tragedy. However, will someone in the near future, have to stand every five yards along every pavement in the country, warning everyone that crosses the road that it is dangerous and you run the risk of being run over ? Somewhere along the line we have to take some responsibility for our own wellbeing. It's not always someone else's fault when bad things happen. Legislation will only go so far to keep us all safe. Again a terrible tragedy, but is it as black and white as our "victim" society now has us believe ?

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:04 am 
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davejonesears wrote:
All a tad sanctimonious aren't we?
I don't think it too much to ask for known allergens to be identified in no ambiguous terms.
Why should anyone with allergies not be able to purchase in the same way as their friends?

Pret had been made aware of these concerns several times previously ...They take the profit without any responsibility?


The question was more about the mentality of someone willing to take such risks knowing their own HUGE vulnerability.

How many humans share this same thought pattern, which seems to chance it

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:54 am 
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suiging wrote:
Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
The law doesn't help in this case. It is deficient to allow sandwich sellers such as Pret to act as they do. In the end though if the young lady couldn't see any ingredients listed it isn't worth the risk. I feel sorry for all concerned. Heartbreaking.
l

I think you will be able to find someone who is allergic to every ingredient in any food. The store it would seem ( not at the inquest, so an assumption ) did not individually mark the product as carrying one of 14 known serious allergens, as they were not required to do so by EU law. I know it is harsh, but the young lady and her parents, were aware of her problems and it would seem knew the regulations in place, so why did they take the risk ?

Returning from me hols, I was impressed with the way you couldn't book a table in a decent restaurant without first being asked about your allergies. This seemed appropriate and welcome. Buying from fast food outlets in the UK, which do not by European law have to take the same measures, must be fraught with danger for sufferers, so again why risk it without doing your own research, by perhaps asking the question before purchase ?

A terrible tragedy. However, will someone in the near future, have to stand every five yards along every pavement in the country, warning everyone that crosses the road that it is dangerous and you run the risk of being run over ? Somewhere along the line we have to take some responsibility for our own wellbeing. It's not always someone else's fault when bad things happen. Legislation will only go so far to keep us all safe. Again a terrible tragedy, but is it as black and white as our "victim" society now has us believe ?


In hospital last Thursday just before the surgeon was to inject anaesthetic into my eyes I was asked if I had any known allergies. I told them but was still worried in case I'd got some I didn't know about. You are right. It isn't black and white. Life contains risks, some of which are no doubt as yet unknown.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:23 am 
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I'm in the same boat as yourself Deano having the need to trust others with my health, but we have little choice.

Rather than going hungry by refusing food because it may contain something lethal.

We have life changing conditions which leave us with few choices, quality of life or even life extention

I seem to be in hospital every week at the moment with an operation tomorrow Tuesday, and we go through such events with strength gained from family and friends.

I have a five year old autistic grandson, he cant speak a sentence but we hold a special connection when together.
He jumps on the spot when he sees me and shouts Grandad while showing a broad smile.
That word means more to me than the full works of Shakespeare to a Thespian.

Its all worth it Deano your eye to your son on Wolves matchdays is worth the struggle.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:36 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
I'm in the same boat as yourself Deano having the need to trust others with my health, but we have little choice.

Rather than going hungry by refusing food because it may contain something lethal.

We have life changing conditions which leave us with few choices, quality of life or even life extention

I seem to be in hospital every week at the moment with an operation tomorrow Tuesday, and we go through such events with strength gained from family and friends.

I have a five year old autistic grandson, he cant speak a sentence but we hold a special connection when together.
He jumps on the spot when he sees me and shouts Grandad while showing a broad smile.
That word means more to me than the full works of Shakespeare to a Thespian.

Its all worth it Deano your eye to your son on Wolves matchdays is worth the struggle.


It's good to see a bit of the person for a change. Whatever our differences I hope your health issues improve and your rewarding relationship with your grandson continues.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:25 pm 
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Left back wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
I'm in the same boat as yourself Deano having the need to trust others with my health, but we have little choice.

Rather than going hungry by refusing food because it may contain something lethal.

We have life changing conditions which leave us with few choices, quality of life or even life extention

I seem to be in hospital every week at the moment with an operation tomorrow Tuesday, and we go through such events with strength gained from family and friends.

I have a five year old autistic grandson, he cant speak a sentence but we hold a special connection when together.
He jumps on the spot when he sees me and shouts Grandad while showing a broad smile.
That word means more to me than the full works of Shakespeare to a Thespian.

Its all worth it Deano your eye to your son on Wolves matchdays is worth the struggle.


It's good to see a bit of the person for a change. Whatever our differences I hope your health issues improve and your rewarding relationship with your grandson continues.


Absolutely. Get better soon. Your grandson needs you.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:45 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
I'm in the same boat as yourself Deano having the need to trust others with my health, but we have little choice.

Rather than going hungry by refusing food because it may contain something lethal.

We have life changing conditions which leave us with few choices, quality of life or even life extention

I seem to be in hospital every week at the moment with an operation tomorrow Tuesday, and we go through such events with strength gained from family and friends.

I have a five year old autistic grandson, he cant speak a sentence but we hold a special connection when together.
He jumps on the spot when he sees me and shouts Grandad while showing a broad smile.
That word means more to me than the full works of Shakespeare to a Thespian.

Its all worth it Deano your eye to your son on Wolves matchdays is worth the struggle.


Looks like we have both got some problems Knocker. My youngest sister is severely disabled from birth. My son has undergone two scans on his brain as he suffers constant headaches. My missus is riddled with arthritis and squeals with pain fifty times a day. I have had six eye operations in 21 months. Just had a growth removed off my one eye. The other eye has to undergo a major op to restore its vision ( currently at 25% of normal). To compound it the NHS wouldn't perform the last 4 operations due to a high probability of blindness. So I have paid a bleeding small fortune out our savings to fund 4 private ops. And to cap it all a very close friend has been told he has terminal lung cancer. No wonder I am a miserable old git.
Good luck to you and yours, especially your little grandson. NOTHING is as important as being fit and healthy. Absolutely nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:40 pm 
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Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
I'm in the same boat as yourself Deano having the need to trust others with my health, but we have little choice.

Rather than going hungry by refusing food because it may contain something lethal.

We have life changing conditions which leave us with few choices, quality of life or even life extention

I seem to be in hospital every week at the moment with an operation tomorrow Tuesday, and we go through such events with strength gained from family and friends.

I have a five year old autistic grandson, he cant speak a sentence but we hold a special connection when together.
He jumps on the spot when he sees me and shouts Grandad while showing a broad smile.
That word means more to me than the full works of Shakespeare to a Thespian.

Its all worth it Deano your eye to your son on Wolves matchdays is worth the struggle.


Looks like we have both got some problems Knocker. My youngest sister is severely disabled from birth. My son has undergone two scans on his brain as he suffers constant headaches. My missus is riddled with arthritis and squeals with pain fifty times a day. I have had six eye operations in 21 months. Just had a growth removed off my one eye. The other eye has to undergo a major op to restore its vision ( currently at 25% of normal). To compound it the NHS wouldn't perform the last 4 operations due to a high probability of blindness. So I have paid a bleeding small fortune out our savings to fund 4 private ops. And to cap it all a very close friend has been told he has terminal lung cancer. No wonder I am a miserable old git.
Good luck to you and yours, especially your little grandson. NOTHING is as important as being fit and healthy. Absolutely nothing.


That's some story. I do wish you all the best.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:49 pm 
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Left back wrote:
Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
I'm in the same boat as yourself Deano having the need to trust others with my health, but we have little choice.

Rather than going hungry by refusing food because it may contain something lethal.

We have life changing conditions which leave us with few choices, quality of life or even life extention

I seem to be in hospital every week at the moment with an operation tomorrow Tuesday, and we go through such events with strength gained from family and friends.

I have a five year old autistic grandson, he cant speak a sentence but we hold a special connection when together.
He jumps on the spot when he sees me and shouts Grandad while showing a broad smile.
That word means more to me than the full works of Shakespeare to a Thespian.

Its all worth it Deano your eye to your son on Wolves matchdays is worth the struggle.


Looks like we have both got some problems Knocker. My youngest sister is severely disabled from birth. My son has undergone two scans on his brain as he suffers constant headaches. My missus is riddled with arthritis and squeals with pain fifty times a day. I have had six eye operations in 21 months. Just had a growth removed off my one eye. The other eye has to undergo a major op to restore its vision ( currently at 25% of normal). To compound it the NHS wouldn't perform the last 4 operations due to a high probability of blindness. So I have paid a bleeding small fortune out our savings to fund 4 private ops. And to cap it all a very close friend has been told he has terminal lung cancer. No wonder I am a miserable old git.
Good luck to you and yours, especially your little grandson. NOTHING is as important as being fit and healthy. Absolutely nothing.


That's some story. I do wish you all the best.


Thank you LB. Hope Knocker and I can recover to resume hostilities. In the nicest possible way of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:18 pm 
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Deano's Golden Boots wrote:

Thank you LB. Hope Knocker and I can recover to resume hostilities. In the nicest possible way of course.


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:58 pm 
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I am sure everyone on this Board wishes you well. It shows that we all have problems and issues, and some are major, and some we THINK are major, but then we hear of those of others and feel a touch ashamed we were so self-indulgent.

So I complain my back's a bit sore after golf, and my wife's arthritis in her fingers is worsening, and my son's sale of his flat fell through last week .... and they pale into insignificance compared with the trials and tribulations of some of you guys.

Respect!!

And keep on posting - and we can grump about each other's ludicrous opinions.... It helps soothe the pain!

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:16 am 
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Back in hospital Monday.

Walking past A and E I do wonder how they they will cope when they have to accept the newbies from Telford.
Always looks rammed, with doctors and nurses stretched to the limit.


This winter is going to be eventful.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:19 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Back in hospital Monday.

Walking past A and E I do wonder how they they will cope when they have to accept the newbies from Telford.
Always looks rammed, with doctors and nurses stretched to the limit.


This winter is going to be eventful.


Glad to see that even in adversity, you can still get the political dig in....... :D

Keep going mate. The world always needs debate.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:41 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Back in hospital Monday.

Walking past A and E I do wonder how they they will cope when they have to accept the newbies from Telford.
Always looks rammed, with doctors and nurses stretched to the limit.

This winter is going to be eventful.


They won't cope. For my latest op I waited over 4 hours for the surgeon "to find someone to assist" him in my op. His words not mine. And I had to pay Private. Fuckin shambles and it ain't the staff's fault.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:31 pm 
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Never understood why 'management' is always blamed at the NHS.

The NHS is the fourth biggest employer IN THE WORLD. That is a lot of staff. They can't all just walk in and expect to do what they fancy on a day and hope the anaesthetist, the surgeon, the nurses will all be there, and that there will be a ward and an operating theatre, and that they will all be clean and sterile, and that the right equipment and instruments will be there - all sterilised, and that.....

These things are incredibly complex. If ONE person (be it cleaner or surgeon or the person who orders the equipment or books the rooms) fouls up, your operation is postponed.

No excuse, but in an organisation with SO many employees, it ain't surprising that in too many cases something goes wrong.

Read Matthew Syed's book "Black Box Thinking" about the difference in mindset between the NHS and the airline business. Very interesting!

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:55 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Never understood why 'management' is always blamed at the NHS.

The NHS is the fourth biggest employer IN THE WORLD. That is a lot of staff. They can't all just walk in and expect to do what they fancy on a day and hope the anaesthetist, the surgeon, the nurses will all be there, and that there will be a ward and an operating theatre, and that they will all be clean and sterile, and that the right equipment and instruments will be there - all sterilised, and that.....

These things are incredibly complex. If ONE person (be it cleaner or surgeon or the person who orders the equipment or books the rooms) fouls up, your operation is postponed.

No excuse, but in an organisation with SO many employees, it ain't surprising that in too many cases something goes wrong.


Read Matthew Syed's book "Black Box Thinking" about the difference in mindset between the NHS and the airline business. Very interesting!


Absolutely SW. Add to that all the various organisations which have to be satisfied that the job is being done properly with paper work and processes and government rules and governance requirements and audits and budget limitations etc. and it becomes extremely difficult. I was a manager in the NHS and I have to say that, whether I was competent or not, I found the job extremely taxing. The NHS is a behemoth. I haven't read Matthew Syed's book - I will try to find it but I did note that in the recent case (relating to a Pret sandwich) - the safety procedure was inflexible to the extent that a potential life saving defibrillator could not be fetched to assist the dying person.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:14 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Never understood why 'management' is always blamed at the NHS.

The NHS is the fourth biggest employer IN THE WORLD. That is a lot of staff. They can't all just walk in and expect to do what they fancy on a day and hope the anaesthetist, the surgeon, the nurses will all be there, and that there will be a ward and an operating theatre, and that they will all be clean and sterile, and that the right equipment and instruments will be there - all sterilised, and that.....

These things are incredibly complex. If ONE person (be it cleaner or surgeon or the person who orders the equipment or books the rooms) fouls up, your operation is postponed.

No excuse, but in an organisation with SO many employees, it ain't surprising that in too many cases something goes wrong.

Read Matthew Syed's book "Black Box Thinking" about the difference in mindset between the NHS and the airline business. Very interesting!


I don't recall blaming "Management", although I have never had the pleasure of meeting any at the NHS. I have three NHS nurses in my family and they all say too many patients for the number of doctors and nursing staff to cope with, especially in the areas of A&E and Geriatrics.

Having spent far too much time in recent years in both aspects of the NHS I agree with them wholeheartedly. Try spending two weeks in New Cross geriatrics ward like I have then come back to me. Some MIXED wards at that. Bloody demeaning especially for the ladies. Night times last forever. Patients crying out for basics ( bedpans, change the sheets, pain relief, oxygen supplies running out). Buzzers going all night. Very upsetting and worrying. Virtually impossible to sleep unless you are drugged up to the eyeballs or on death's door.

The few nurses that are on are run off their feet. Christ above I couldn't do their jobs. I have all the time in the world for doctors and nurses. God bless 'em.

The impending (temporary?) closure of Telford and the night-time closure of Stafford A&E departments is enough to put the shivers up the spines of all who reside in those areas. All patients will be taken to New Cross or Shrewsbury. Winter approaches. I have never criticised hospital Management. I hope they can help our hospitals cope this winter.

The NHS. We couldn't survive without it.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:36 pm 
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Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
I have never criticised hospital Management. I hope they can help our hospitals cope this winter.



It seemingly becomes more difficult each year, the reasons are numerous but poor political decisions for years have not helped. As in all walks of life, there are wankers amongst the managers who are mainly interested in themselves but the vast majority really will be doing their best to help the hospitals cope during the winter.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:18 pm 
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Sorry - you never did - I just took the opportunity for a favourite rant (like when the woes of the world are always placed on 'bankers' to wild applause from a studio audience!)

And I completely agree that wards can be horrid. And we need far more nurses to act as NURSES and be given the time to provide care and company (social as well as nutritional nourishment). Of course ideally families will be around - but many have to work, and live many miles away from the hospital. Nurses are there to provide surrogate friendship.

Strikes me we have lost some of that - and partly as nursing has become a 'graduate profession', where some of them see it as 'beneath their status' to do some of the basic stuff.

A shame. Nearly all nurses (and doctors and teachers and bin men and....) want to do a good job. We presently make it almost impossible for them to do so.

BUT if we want a 5 star health service, we simply have to pay far more for it. Some other European countries spend far more on health care. We want a Rolls Royce service for a Kia price. It doesn't add up. And we need to rise money by ditching the 'free for all at point of....'.

I can afford to pay for prescriptions and would happily do so. I can afford to pay for 'Bed and Board' care if I go into hospital. Why not expect at least that from those that can afford AND who use and benefit from the service. Yes I know 'means-testing' is bureaucratic, but we need a serious look at ALL options if the service is not to collapse.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:29 am 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Sorry - you never did - I just took the opportunity for a favourite rant (like when the woes of the world are always placed on 'bankers' to wild applause from a studio audience!)

And I completely agree that wards can be horrid. And we need far more nurses to act as NURSES and be given the time to provide care and company (social as well as nutritional nourishment). Of course ideally families will be around - but many have to work, and live many miles away from the hospital. Nurses are there to provide surrogate friendship.

Strikes me we have lost some of that - and partly as nursing has become a 'graduate profession', where some of them see it as 'beneath their status' to do some of the basic stuff.

A shame. Nearly all nurses (and doctors and teachers and bin men and....) want to do a good job. We presently make it almost impossible for them to do so.

BUT if we want a 5 star health service, we simply have to pay far more for it. Some other European countries spend far more on health care. We want a Rolls Royce service for a Kia price. It doesn't add up. And we need to rise money by ditching the 'free for all at point of....'.

I can afford to pay for prescriptions and would happily do so. I can afford to pay for 'Bed and Board' care if I go into hospital. Why not expect at least that from those that can afford AND who use and benefit from the service. Yes I know 'means-testing' is bureaucratic, but we need a serious look at ALL options if the service is not to collapse.


Your ideas as sensible as they may be, would be/are political suicide for any party who tried to introduce them. The "left" will scream at the "right" for daring to be pragmatic with a stealth tax against the poor. The "right" if in opposition would appeal on much the same grounds hoping to and probably picking up swing voters who at the end of the day, really don't want to pay for anything....ever.

Doomed I tell thee.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:12 am 
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The current funding of the NHS under this Conservative Government is higher than at any time under a Labour government.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:04 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
The current funding of the NHS under this Conservative Government is higher than at any time under a Labour government.


A strange comment for you to make but true. It is far more than a money thing, the NHS is a structural and bureaucratic nightmare.

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:45 pm 
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suiging wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Sorry - you never did - I just took the opportunity for a favourite rant (like when the woes of the world are always placed on 'bankers' to wild applause from a studio audience!)

And I completely agree that wards can be horrid. And we need far more nurses to act as NURSES and be given the time to provide care and company (social as well as nutritional nourishment). Of course ideally families will be around - but many have to work, and live many miles away from the hospital. Nurses are there to provide surrogate friendship.

Strikes me we have lost some of that - and partly as nursing has become a 'graduate profession', where some of them see it as 'beneath their status' to do some of the basic stuff.

A shame. Nearly all nurses (and doctors and teachers and bin men and....) want to do a good job. We presently make it almost impossible for them to do so.

BUT if we want a 5 star health service, we simply have to pay far more for it. Some other European countries spend far more on health care. We want a Rolls Royce service for a Kia price. It doesn't add up. And we need to rise money by ditching the 'free for all at point of....'.

I can afford to pay for prescriptions and would happily do so. I can afford to pay for 'Bed and Board' care if I go into hospital. Why not expect at least that from those that can afford AND who use and benefit from the service. Yes I know 'means-testing' is bureaucratic, but we need a serious look at ALL options if the service is not to collapse.


Your ideas as sensible as they may be, would be/are political suicide for any party who tried to introduce them. The "left" will scream at the "right" for daring to be pragmatic with a stealth tax against the poor. The "right" if in opposition would appeal on much the same grounds hoping to and probably picking up swing voters who at the end of the day, really don't want to pay for anything....ever.

Doomed I tell thee.


Bring back the good old ward Matrons. Starched hats, faces like thunder, impeccable standards. But, by God, they knew what was needed. They kept "Management" in check whilst at the same time giving invaluable guidance and support to doctors, nurses, and patients. Anybody who watches "The Royal" on tv will know what I'm on about. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:58 pm 
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Agree. Ward Matrons TOOK RESPONSIBILITY for the care on their ward, and were fierce. Wonder if today's nurses could stand the pressure??

KK is right. There is HUGE funding of the NHS, but somehow we need to find ways of spending it better.

What IS also true is that we will NEVER get it sorted until there is a CROSS-PARTY strategy that removes the NHS from being a political football, with too many sacred cows (if that's not too much of a mixed metaphor!)

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 Post subject: Re: Why take risks
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:21 pm 
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Deano, yow cor goo blind now chap, this is some of the best cowin football wiv down down Waterloo Road for yonks!

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