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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:13 am 
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davejonesears wrote:
raggedwolf wrote:
It all comes down to having a referendum where a massively complicated project was decided on a yes no question with the decision made by people who had no idea of the implications many of whom almost certainly protest voted at their dissatisfaction with the perceived establishment.
It's not as if people voted for any kind of considered plan of how to do it because Leave didn't put forward a plan that covered anything like the issues now being dealt with : so it's no wonder Parliament can't agree because there was no plan approved beyond "Leave cos well be better off". And it's obvious we'll be worse off.


Just because something maybe complicated to do doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted.
Anyone who really thought it would be easy to extract ourselves from the EU after 40 years must be a little slow tbh, but again it doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

I don't think that being worse off is necessarily a reason not to vote for it either, it depends what the pay off for that is.
All I hear about is a 'free trade deal' & , in reality there's no such thing.


I agree with some of your points, but maybe for other reasons.
Once you abide with the vote your in position to determine the UkS future and thats more than economically its a wider social responsibility.
So one question to ask does the current government during negotiation reflect the views of the people and fully understand the reasons for voting out.
Does this Tory government reflect your views?
Whats important moving forward?

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:33 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
davejonesears wrote:
raggedwolf wrote:
It all comes down to having a referendum where a massively complicated project was decided on a yes no question with the decision made by people who had no idea of the implications many of whom almost certainly protest voted at their dissatisfaction with the perceived establishment.
It's not as if people voted for any kind of considered plan of how to do it because Leave didn't put forward a plan that covered anything like the issues now being dealt with : so it's no wonder Parliament can't agree because there was no plan approved beyond "Leave cos well be better off". And it's obvious we'll be worse off.


Just because something maybe complicated to do doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted.
Anyone who really thought it would be easy to extract ourselves from the EU after 40 years must be a little slow tbh, but again it doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

I don't think that being worse off is necessarily a reason not to vote for it either, it depends what the pay off for that is.
All I hear about is a 'free trade deal' & , in reality there's no such thing.


I agree with some of your points, but maybe for other reasons.
Once you abide with the vote your in position to determine the UkS future and thats more than economically its a wider social responsibility.
So one question to ask does the current government during negotiation reflect the views of the people and fully understand the reasons for voting out.
Does this Tory government reflect your views?
Whats important moving forward?


We all understand your pain KK . You voted out. Momentum turned you to become a remainer. Your God like leader, completely ignores his party but actually reflects the views of the majority of Labour voters. It is no wonder you have to ask so many questions. Your hero's and Party, certainly have no answers, on ANYTHING.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:02 am 
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f"]It all comes down to having a referendum where a massively complicated project was decided on a yes no question with the decision made by people who had no idea of the implications many of whom almost certainly protest voted at their dissatisfaction with the perceived establishment.
It's not as if people voted for any kind of considered plan of how to do it because Leave didn't put forward a plan that covered anything like the issues now being dealt with : so it's no wonder Parliament can't agree because there was no plan approved beyond "Leave cos well be better off". And it's obvious we'll be worse off.[/quote]

Just because something maybe complicated to do doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted.
Anyone who really thought it would be easy to extract ourselves from the EU after 40 years must be a little slow tbh, but again it doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

I don't think that being worse off is necessarily a reason not to vote for it either, it depends what the pay off for that is.
All I hear about is a 'free trade deal' & , in reality there's no such thing.[/quote]

I agree with some of your points, but maybe for other reasons.
Once you abide with the vote your in position to determine the UkS future and thats more than economically its a wider social responsibility.
So one question to ask does the current government during negotiation reflect the views of the people and fully understand the reasons for voting out.
Does this Tory government reflect your views?
Whats important moving forward?[/quote]

We all understand your pain KK . You voted out. Momentum turned you to become a remainer. Your God like leader, completely ignores his party but actually reflects the views of the majority of Labour voters. It is no wonder you have to ask so many questions. Your hero's and Party, certainly have no answers, on ANYTHING.[/quote]

No just to keep you up tp speed on my current view.

Because they lack the vision to see future opportunities post brexit this government at negotiation has failed to deliver a good balanced brexit.
They went to the EU without a brexit plan and have accepted what the EU has offered.
Now with the clock running down the general public in my view still doesn't understand the ramifications of leaving with No Deal.
To be honest I think Project Fear has been to kind and cautious and NO DEAL will see the UK collapse in different ways.
This Tory government becomes even weaker and is then replaced by Jeremy Corbyn after another General Election.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:24 am 
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Project fear is discredited. The German economy is heading for deep recession. The claims that the forced formation of a European Army were fiction, are unravelling as that fictitious army becomes a reality. Italy enters another decade in economic decline. Greece on the verge of revolution, Hungary about to become a right wing, racist dictatorship, and then of course you can watch France stumble towards anarchy.

We need to get out. We need to get out no matter what.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:26 am 
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Does anybody actually believe that sick Europeans are looking at their UK made medication and wondering how they will get it after Brexit ?

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:31 am 
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If the will of the people is reversed, I will enjoy watching the privileged youth of London cry as they receive their call-up cards, as they are drafted into the EU Army, and sent to the frontlines in France, Greece, or the Hugarian border.

Oh the irony

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:12 pm 
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suiging wrote:
If the will of the people is reversed, I will enjoy watching the privileged youth of London cry as they receive their call-up cards, as they are drafted into the EU Army, and sent to the frontlines in France, Greece, or the Hugarian border.

Oh the irony


Talk about Project Fear :lol:

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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:47 am 
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Reaching the point now where May reaches out to Labour and has to offer concessions.

Workers rights, human rights, customs union.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:19 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Reaching the point now where May reaches out to Labour and has to offer concessions.

Workers rights, human rights, customs union.


Labour top brass seems determined to reject whatever she offers anyway so all rather pointless.

A party who wants a "jobs first Brexit" whose main tactic is rejecting any deal on the table that helps safeguard the economy(!).

David Lammy with an excellent speech this week from the Labour backbenches though.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:48 pm 
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shropswolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Reaching the point now where May reaches out to Labour and has to offer concessions.

Workers rights, human rights, customs union.


Labour top brass seems determined to reject whatever she offers anyway so all rather pointless.

A party who wants a "jobs first Brexit" whose main tactic is rejecting any deal on the table that helps safeguard the economy(!).

David Lammy with an excellent speech this week from the Labour backbenches though.


That is the best anti Brexit speech I have seen and appears to be based on putting the country first rather than sniping party politics. I like him referring to "decades" of austerity and "both parties failed to build".

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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:54 pm 
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shropswolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Reaching the point now where May reaches out to Labour and has to offer concessions.

Workers rights, human rights, customs union.


Labour top brass seems determined to reject whatever she offers anyway so all rather pointless.

A party who wants a "jobs first Brexit" whose main tactic is rejecting any deal on the table that helps safeguard the economy(!).

David Lammy with an excellent speech this week from the Labour backbenches though.


If May only seemed to be reaching out to Labour Blairites she might reel in a few possible Tory rebels thinking of voting against her. We could move into Edward Heath territory where he was persuaded to offer a free vote on Europe.
Imagine a time when MPs on all sides voted on the interests of their constituents without fear of deselection.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:49 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Reaching the point now where May reaches out to Labour and has to offer concessions.

Workers rights, human rights, customs union.


Labour top brass seems determined to reject whatever she offers anyway so all rather pointless.

A party who wants a "jobs first Brexit" whose main tactic is rejecting any deal on the table that helps safeguard the economy(!).

David Lammy with an excellent speech this week from the Labour backbenches though.


If May only seemed to be reaching out to Labour Blairites she might reel in a few possible Tory rebels thinking of voting against her. We could move into Edward Heath territory where he was persuaded to offer a free vote on Europe.
Imagine a time when MPs on all sides voted on the interests of their constituents without fear of deselection.


Yes , I do wistfully imagine that time, as that would mean, of course ,that Brexit would have been correctly implemented.

When looked at the leave vote was successful in both overall total and - just as importantly- ward totals, so no matter how that is skewed or misrepresented those are the facts.

There are many many MP's who reside over leave constituencies that are not representing the majority of their constituents at all .

Labour & Tory MP's whose wards voted- sometimes overwhelmingly- to leave, and yet strive at every opportunity to serve only themselves & their political machinations.

Choreographing these amendments , motions and political shenanigans, watched over and ably assisted by that arrogant , preening, smirking, bully of a Speaker...who 'speaks' only for himself-or maybe his wife.

All have played at the politik for far too long , whilst being paid a handsome sum ,and now it comes down to the crunch we can see them for the charlatans they really are.

And they wonder why the public don't trust them....really!?
The majority need to take a look in the mirror where they will see who's really causing the issue.


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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:20 pm 
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The people ( whether right or wrong) voted to leave the EU. The politicians are blocking it. People like Bercow and Grieve should be hung at dawn.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:31 pm 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
The people ( whether right or wrong) voted to leave the EU. The politicians are blocking it. People like Bercow and Grieve should be hung at dawn.


Why don't you organise their execution then and claim you were merely carrying out the will of the people.

Personally, I'd prefer the UK to be a country of law and order, but you'd get lot of Facebook likes and no doubt a glowing editorial from the Mail for your actions.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:33 am 
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shropswolf wrote:
gladbachwolf wrote:
The people ( whether right or wrong) voted to leave the EU. The politicians are blocking it. People like Bercow and Grieve should be hung at dawn.


Why don't you organise their execution then and claim you were merely carrying out the will of the people.

Personally, I'd prefer the UK to be a country of law and order, but you'd get lot of Facebook likes and no doubt a glowing editorial from the Mail for your actions.



Would that " law" be the law of our land, as defined by UK Statute and our Common Law which has evolved over centuries and defines us as a people ? Or would that be EU law as decided by unelected Federalists at a whim ?

I take it. the "order" would be the people of these Isles living in peace, accepting the will of Parliament. Safe in the knowledge that in a parliamentary democracy, said parliament will act on the "will" of the people ?

Or do you have another " law and order " in mind ?

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:16 am 
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suiging wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
gladbachwolf wrote:
The people ( whether right or wrong) voted to leave the EU. The politicians are blocking it. People like Bercow and Grieve should be hung at dawn.


Why don't you organise their execution then and claim you were merely carrying out the will of the people.

Personally, I'd prefer the UK to be a country of law and order, but you'd get lot of Facebook likes and no doubt a glowing editorial from the Mail for your actions.



Would that " law" be the law of our land, as defined by UK Statute and our Common Law which has evolved over centuries and defines us as a people ? Or would that be EU law as decided by unelected Federalists at a whim ?

I take it. the "order" would be the people of these Isles living in peace, accepting the will of Parliament. Safe in the knowledge that in a parliamentary democracy, said parliament will act on the "will" of the people ?

Or do you have another " law and order " in mind ?


I believe hanging is not permitted under either UK or EU law and thus anyone undertaking such would be committing murder.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:17 am 
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Good news, fellow plebs, multimillionaire Liam Fox has assured us all that no deal is "survivable". Phew!

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:25 pm 
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Here are the two most marginal Labour held constituencies

Kensington ….Labour majority of 20 votes. Remain vote of 69%.

Dudley North.....Labour majority of 22 votes. Leave vote of 71%.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:44 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Here are the two most marginal Labour held constituencies

Kensington ….Labour majority of 20 votes. Remain vote of 69%.

Dudley North.....Labour majority of 22 votes. Leave vote of 71%.


No point using historical data for a guide to future general election performance. Voters next time will not be voting on Theresa May but an entirely new Tory candidate.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:52 pm 
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We seem to have moved into an era where a Conservative government no matter how corrupt or incompetent can ride out the storm.

Front bench resignations, loss of key votes in Parliament

It can only happen with the collusion of the media ...propping you up. Its embarrassing really.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:37 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
We seem to have moved into an era where a Conservative government no matter how corrupt or incompetent can ride out the storm.

Front bench resignations, loss of key votes in Parliament

It can only happen with the collusion of the media ...propping you up. Its embarrassing really.


Or the common sense of the electorate perhaps in knowing what is the least worst of options available.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:08 pm 
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Left back wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
We seem to have moved into an era where a Conservative government no matter how corrupt or incompetent can ride out the storm.

Front bench resignations, loss of key votes in Parliament

It can only happen with the collusion of the media ...propping you up. Its embarrassing really.


Or the common sense of the electorate perhaps in knowing what is the least worst of options available.


I think it is fairly stitched on that May will not fight the next General Election. Those that will blame her for the current mess will have to look elsewhere. Corbyn however, will probably be in place. His performances and let downs of his key support base ( the electorate KK, not the party/momentum ) will be difficult if not impossible for him to overcome.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:58 pm 
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Strange woman May, even at the eleventh hour she believes she can bully her deal through the house.

Has she ever listened to others?

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:55 am 
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I see Graham Brady voted against the May deal, nice to know who your friends are.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:01 am 
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Brexit is not going to happen now. Cross party politicians have put paid to that. The country was always split into two over class, now it is Brexit. Where does it go from here? Who can / could solve all the jigsaw pieces of legislation, jobs, travel, immigration and law that comprise the behemoth that is the EU? Whatever PM you might have in place of May would not be able to square the circle. Mission Impossible, time for Tom Cruise….

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:12 am 
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Brexit will happen on March 29 unless new legislation is drafted, successfully wins a majority in the Commons - where there is no majority for anything - and gets through the Lords to boot. Any motions tabled in the Commons to the contrary have no legal force.

Disappointing to hear Corbyn's boneheaded rant at the very moment he was offered the chance before all the nation to act in statesman-like manner. I thought he was going to have a coronary as he tabled his doomed no-confidence motion.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:24 am 
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shropswolf wrote:
Brexit will happen on March 29 unless new legislation is drafted, successfully wins a majority in the Commons - where there is no majority for anything - and gets through the Lords to boot. Any motions tabled in the Commons to the contrary have no legal force.

Disappointing to hear Corbyn's boneheaded rant at the very moment he was offered the chance before all the nation to act in statesman-like manner. I thought he was going to have a coronary as he tabled his doomed no-confidence motion.


Yep. To pass a new statute to stop it, would need to go through the correct procedures and committee stages. Mog and Co are well educated, and fully understand the term " Filibuster".

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:25 am 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
Brexit is not going to happen now. Cross party politicians have put paid to that. The country was always split into two over class, now it is Brexit. Where does it go from here? Who can / could solve all the jigsaw pieces of legislation, jobs, travel, immigration and law that comprise the behemoth that is the EU? Whatever PM you might have in place of May would not be able to square the circle. Mission Impossible, time for Tom Cruise….


Unless a new law is passed "IN TIME" to stop it, it will.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:29 am 
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shropswolf wrote:
Brexit will happen on March 29 unless new legislation is drafted, successfully wins a majority in the Commons - where there is no majority for anything - and gets through the Lords to boot. Any motions tabled in the Commons to the contrary have no legal force.

Disappointing to hear Corbyn's boneheaded rant at the very moment he was offered the chance before all the nation to act in statesman-like manner. I thought he was going to have a coronary as he tabled his doomed no-confidence motion.


Do you find May's attitude towards Jeremy Corbyn acceptable, I don't.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:36 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
Brexit will happen on March 29 unless new legislation is drafted, successfully wins a majority in the Commons - where there is no majority for anything - and gets through the Lords to boot. Any motions tabled in the Commons to the contrary have no legal force.

Disappointing to hear Corbyn's boneheaded rant at the very moment he was offered the chance before all the nation to act in statesman-like manner. I thought he was going to have a coronary as he tabled his doomed no-confidence motion.


Do you find May's attitude towards Jeremy Corbyn acceptable, I don't.


Seriously ?

What has he done in life, in politics, anywhere, to garner any respect from anyone accept the IRA, Venezuelan dictators and Hamas. Even the old Soviet intelligence agencies thought he was a buffoon .

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