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 Post Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:15 am 
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raggedwolf wrote:
Hands up who is voting Conservative in the European elections?


My local Mayor is Labour and a great bloke. He will get my vote. The local Councillor is conservative, she is also excellent and will get my vote. Greater "Party " politics is fucked. I will vote for individuals only. The parties they represent are all traitors to democracy.

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 Post Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:49 am 
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Tusk: "Please do not waste this time"

Hours later...

"Andrea Leadsom, the leader of the Commons, has just confirmed that, if MPs a motion on the order paper today, the house will rise for the Easter recess this afternoon and not return until Tuesday 23 April.

And she has just announced the business for the first week after Easter, which does not include any Brexit indicative votes, or the introduction of the long-awaited EU withdrawal agreement bill."

Don't want ole Jacob to miss out on his skiing hols or Corbyn to miss two weeks work on his allotment... thank god for the extension...

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Wolves' Head of Football Development & Recruitment Kevin Thelwell added: "Grant Holt has been at a lot of clubs and there is a reason for that - he is a very good player."


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 Post Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:53 am 
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shropswolf wrote:
Phew! The latest extension has ensured the MPs can go on their Easter hols!


Thank the Lord, they deserve it. It's never easy living with such a meagre salary and an average of 180K plus in expenses. They hardly have the time for their consultancy gigs, never mind a holiday.

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 Post Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:54 am 
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suiging wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
Phew! The latest extension has ensured the MPs can go on their Easter hols!


Thank the Lord, they deserve it. It's never easy living with such a meagre salary and an average of 180K plus in expenses. They hardly have the time for their consultancy gigs.


You'll be relieved to know that they have now granted themselves anonymity when it comes to overclaiming expenses so you can try your hand as much as you want to grab as much wonga as you like without having to worry about the public eventually finding out.

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Wolves' Head of Football Development & Recruitment Kevin Thelwell added: "Grant Holt has been at a lot of clubs and there is a reason for that - he is a very good player."


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 Post Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:40 pm 
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shropswolf wrote:
suiging wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
Phew! The latest extension has ensured the MPs can go on their Easter hols!


Thank the Lord, they deserve it. It's never easy living with such a meagre salary and an average of 180K plus in expenses. They hardly have the time for their consultancy gigs.


You'll be relieved to know that they have now granted themselves anonymity when it comes to overclaiming expenses so you can try your hand as much as you want to grab as much wonga as you like without having to worry about the public eventually finding out.



Their squeals of glee when told about the holiday made my year.....bless them

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 Post Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:11 pm 
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suiging wrote:
shropswolf wrote:

You'll be relieved to know that they have now granted themselves anonymity when it comes to overclaiming expenses so you can try your hand as much as you want to grab as much wonga as you like without having to worry about the public eventually finding out.



Their squeals of glee when told about the holiday made my year.....bless them


As I have alluded to earlier my contempt for these so called servants of the people now knows no bounds.
To quote a certain Wolfie -Smith that is Not KK -"Come the glorious day brothers (& sisters now of course) ...up against the wall pop pop pop!"


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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:49 am 
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The fact that the English were in a far greater need of a revolution than the French has never been explained to the lower classes.
Even now the French stand up to be counted while the English continue to be subservient.

Its the English class system that continues to be the greatest killer of meritocracy.

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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:17 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
The fact that the English were in a far greater need of a revolution than the French has never been explained to the lower classes.
Even now the French stand up to be counted while the English continue to be subservient.

Its the English class system that continues to be the greatest killer of meritocracy.


I wonder what would have become of Viscount Stansgate II had the populous risen up during his time.

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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:54 pm 
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Left back wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
The fact that the English were in a far greater need of a revolution than the French has never been explained to the lower classes.
Even now the French stand up to be counted while the English continue to be subservient.

Its the English class system that continues to be the greatest killer of meritocracy.


I wonder what would have become of Viscount Stansgate II had the populous risen up during his time.


He would have given them cake.

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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:42 pm 
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Not entirely sure the 'French way' is a better way....

- frequent street demos and violence if democracy does not deliver what YOU want
- farmers blocking roads leading to frequent traffic chaos
- rioters destroying small shops and setting fire to cars
- blockading of ports
- average number of 'sickies' thrown by French workers = 17 pa (cf British workers = 4 pa!)
- an economy that is busted because people want to draw more out of the nation than they put in (so early retirement, high pensions....)

Still not sure French is an example to follow....

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 Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:40 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Not entirely sure the 'French way' is a better way....

- frequent street demos and violence if democracy does not deliver what YOU want
- farmers blocking roads leading to frequent traffic chaos
- rioters destroying small shops and setting fire to cars
- blockading of ports
- average number of 'sickies' thrown by French workers = 17 pa (cf British workers = 4 pa!)
- an economy that is busted because people want to draw more out of the nation than they put in (so early retirement, high pensions....)

Still not sure French is an example to follow....


Much depends on your own mindset how you view such events as the French working classes demanding better rights and conditions.
Something lost on the English due the media creating another mindset through the last half century.

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 Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:10 pm 
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But is it REALLY French 'working classes', or a tiny number of anarchic forces who disrupt to a far greater extent than their support would dictate?

I am not sure the phrase 'working classes' has much traction any more. The 'working classes' historically were mainly engaged in relatively hard manual and not highly skilled activity. It would be interesting to list people you regard as 'working class' - with their age and education level and job role and salary. And do a similar activity for the 'middle classes' and for 'the upper classes'. And then ask those people if THEY consider themselves to be of that class.

Salary and class have never been closely correlated.

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 Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:16 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
But is it REALLY French 'working classes', or a tiny number of anarchic forces who disrupt to a far greater extent than their support would dictate?

I am not sure the phrase 'working classes' has much traction any more. The 'working classes' historically were mainly engaged in relatively hard manual and not highly skilled activity. It would be interesting to list people you regard as 'working class' - with their age and education level and job role and salary. And do a similar activity for the 'middle classes' and for 'the upper classes'. And then ask those people if THEY consider themselves to be of that class.

Salary and class have never been closely correlated.


Anyone who works for their money is working class.
Middle class, upper middle class etc . purely conscripts of a mindset that seek to belittle the working class to make themselves feel so much 'betterer than yow'.


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 Post Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:02 pm 
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What do the likes of Boris Johnson and co have different to us.

You and me, plus most folk we know have very random lives and choices.

Fate takes a hand in your schooling, your marriage choice, career prospects.


Nothing random with the Johnsons or Moggs, everything is planned and they will never do a hard days work in their lives.


Millionaires by birth right.

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 Post Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:20 pm 
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What is 'a hard day's work'?

Most of us have long since left behind manual labour. Is being a teacher 'hard work'? Or a computer programmer? Or an engineer?

Some of the people you name work very long hours. You may despise what they do, but I suspect they are working VERY hard. I know some MPs who put in RIDICULOUSLY long hours at what they do - and dedicate themselves to the job.....

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 Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:22 am 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
What is 'a hard day's work'?

Most of us have long since left behind manual labour. Is being a teacher 'hard work'? Or a computer programmer? Or an engineer?

Some of the people you name work very long hours. You may despise what they do, but I suspect they are working VERY hard. I know some MPs who put in RIDICULOUSLY long hours at what they do - and dedicate themselves to the job.....


Back in the day, I flew a number of times with Mrs Thatcher ( RAF Support Squadron ). Her staff, we the security, and the RAF trolly dolly types, had to work in shifts throughout the long flights, a drudge almost unheard of at the time. Why ? because Maggie never slept. She worked on her papers throughout the night, totally focused, never giving in to worldly needs such as sleep. At the end of the flights, she would walk down the steps as fresh as a daisy. Ready to take on the world for the benefit of her country while those around her looked wrecked.

Did she put a shift in KK ?

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 Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:31 am 
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suiging wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:
What is 'a hard day's work'?

Most of us have long since left behind manual labour. Is being a teacher 'hard work'? Or a computer programmer? Or an engineer?

Some of the people you name work very long hours. You may despise what they do, but I suspect they are working VERY hard. I know some MPs who put in RIDICULOUSLY long hours at what they do - and dedicate themselves to the job.....


Back in the day, I flew a number of times with Mrs Thatcher ( RAF Support Squadron ). Her staff, we the security, and the RAF trolly dolly types, had to work in shifts throughout the long flights, a drudge almost unheard of at the time. Why ? because Maggie never slept. She worked on her papers throughout the night, totally focused, never giving in to worldly needs such as sleep. At the end of the flights, she would walk down the steps as fresh as a daisy. Ready to take on the world for the benefit of her country while those around her looked wrecked.

Did she put a shift in KK ?


What Thatcher did was wreck a once proud nation, we suffer the consequences daily in a broken divided state.
She would have been better off sleeping.

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 Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:07 am 
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I'm beginning to come round to the fact that we should revoke Article 50.

The way it stands, May is determined to give up everything to the EU making us a slave state with no say on anything, for the privilege of a leave in name only.

Go back to square one. Vote these traitors, from all parties out in coming elections. See who gets voted in to the European Parliament and see what they will uncover when in. Hold another referendum with all facts known, including full and frank disclosure of the economies of France and Germany, a true accounting of where our money goes, and a full understanding of France's Federalist dreams... ( For France read Macron, the most unpopular European head of state by a country mile. Makes May look like a pop star, 14% approval ratings and falling ) ....which are even turning the German's against them. After all this, see where we stand in relation to wanting to prop up this corrupt experiment.

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 Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:33 pm 
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suiging wrote:
I'm beginning to come round to the fact that we should revoke Article 50.

The way it stands, May is determined to give up everything to the EU making us a slave state with no say on anything, for the privilege of a leave in name only.

Go back to square one. Vote these traitors, from all parties out in coming elections. See who gets voted in to the European Parliament and see what they will uncover when in. Hold another referendum with all facts known, including full and frank disclosure of the economies of France and Germany, a true accounting of where our money goes, and a full understanding of France's Federalist dreams... ( For France read Macron, the most unpopular European head of state by a country mile. Makes May look like a pop star, 14% approval ratings and falling ) ....which are even turning the German's against them. After all this, see where we stand in relation to wanting to prop up this corrupt experiment.


Whilst I may agree with some of your rationale I can't agree with the decision.
If it is not enacted now there will never be another opportunity to put it to the public again.
That has been proven to be far too dangerous.
If its not delivered now it never will be.


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 Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:38 am 
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davejonesears wrote:
suiging wrote:
I'm beginning to come round to the fact that we should revoke Article 50.

The way it stands, May is determined to give up everything to the EU making us a slave state with no say on anything, for the privilege of a leave in name only.

Go back to square one. Vote these traitors, from all parties out in coming elections. See who gets voted in to the European Parliament and see what they will uncover when in. Hold another referendum with all facts known, including full and frank disclosure of the economies of France and Germany, a true accounting of where our money goes, and a full understanding of France's Federalist dreams... ( For France read Macron, the most unpopular European head of state by a country mile. Makes May look like a pop star, 14% approval ratings and falling ) ....which are even turning the German's against them. After all this, see where we stand in relation to wanting to prop up this corrupt experiment.


Whilst I may agree with some of your rationale I can't agree with the decision.
If it is not enacted now there will never be another opportunity to put it to the public again.
That has been proven to be far too dangerous.
If its not delivered now it never will be.


Sadly with both the major political parties set to stop Brexit no matter what, it will not be delivered. What is on the table is servitude in any other name.

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 Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:24 am 
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suiging wrote:
davejonesears wrote:
suiging wrote:
I'm beginning to come round to the fact that we should revoke Article 50.

The way it stands, May is determined to give up everything to the EU making us a slave state with no say on anything, for the privilege of a leave in name only.

Go back to square one. Vote these traitors, from all parties out in coming elections. See who gets voted in to the European Parliament and see what they will uncover when in. Hold another referendum with all facts known, including full and frank disclosure of the economies of France and Germany, a true accounting of where our money goes, and a full understanding of France's Federalist dreams... ( For France read Macron, the most unpopular European head of state by a country mile. Makes May look like a pop star, 14% approval ratings and falling ) ....which are even turning the German's against them. After all this, see where we stand in relation to wanting to prop up this corrupt experiment.


Whilst I may agree with some of your rationale I can't agree with the decision.
If it is not enacted now there will never be another opportunity to put it to the public again.
That has been proven to be far too dangerous.
If its not delivered now it never will be.


Sadly with both the major political parties set to stop Brexit no matter what, it will not be delivered. What is on the table is servitude in any other name.


What I find incredible is that May only ever now talks about HER deal - ignoring everything else...truly mind boggling.

If people don't like her deal - and there are many on both sides of the house who do not -how can she be allowed to keep on pushing it, it just beggars belief.

We can argue about who's fault it is that Brexit has not been delivered - "Remainers have undermined it" ..."Brexiteers have chased a Brexit Nirvana" etc etc but the truth is the buck stops with only one person ...her!

If MP's don't want HER deal & don't think it's best for the country then they are under no obligation to vote for it.

That doesn't mean we should still not pursue Brexit btw - but she needs to be told to let go of her bone (oooo errrr missus) ...it cannot be her way or the highway as she most obviously thinks it is.

Either way her tenure has defined and been defined by Brexit - and its an awful legacy, only to be made worse I feel ...much worse.

She has destroyed any credibility politicians & both parties had - and that's some going in her short time.

The only way the Tory's can get out from this shit storm with any semblance of credibility is to get rid of her- and fast, but even then it may be too late.

Latest in a long line of poor Tory PM's...but the worst PM accolade still goes to Blair, hands down winner.


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 Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:35 am 
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I only see two options at this stage with those being Revoke or No Deal.

The establishment bubble are not listening but they can count, these MEP elections will be a massive shock to their system.

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 Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:03 am 
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Despite being the 2nd wealthiest nation in the EU, the UK contributes only 11.82% towards the EU budget, compared to 20.63% by Germany.

That represents 0.7% of GDP.


6.1% of GDP is spent on national debt interest.

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 Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:19 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Despite being the 2nd wealthiest nation in the EU, the UK contributes only 11.82% towards the EU budget, compared to 20.63% by Germany.

That represents 0.7% of GDP.


6.1% of GDP is spent on national debt interest.


What is the source of this information? How is the wealth of the nation determined? Who is the wealthiest nation? What position is the UK in terms of level of contribution? Are we looking at just contribution or net contribution after returns/benefits? What % of GDP do Germany pay? What is the respective contribution per person of the two countries?

We need to look at these sort of figures within a fuller context for them to be meaningful.

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 Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:22 am 
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Left back wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Despite being the 2nd wealthiest nation in the EU, the UK contributes only 11.82% towards the EU budget, compared to 20.63% by Germany.

That represents 0.7% of GDP.


6.1% of GDP is spent on national debt interest.


What is the source of this information? How is the wealth of the nation determined? Who is the wealthiest nation? What position is the UK in terms of level of contribution? Are we looking at just contribution or net contribution after returns/benefits? What % of GDP do Germany pay? What is the respective contribution per person of the two countries?

We need to look at these sort of figures within a fuller context for them to be meaningful.


I think Mrs Thatcher had something to do with what we pay.

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 Post Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:46 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
I only see two options at this stage with those being Revoke or No Deal.

The establishment bubble are not listening but they can count, these MEP elections will be a massive shock to their system.


Out of the two Revoke would garner the more un-favourable reaction- she has absolutely no mandate for that outcome whatsoever.

I think the Torys are waiting with some trepidation the results of the MEP & Local council elections.

If the party is devestated at the polls (which i sincerely hope will happen), I think there will be moves to get May out as soon as possible & that can't come soon enough for me.

It may be akin to locking the stable door after the horse has bolted but better late than never.

She is so inept she makes Nero look like the winner of the 'Best firefighter of the Millenium' Medal.

Unless ,of course, it was her plan all along?

Either way the position the Tory Party finds itself in is precarious - and we as a country will be the ones who suffer.


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 Post Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:36 am 
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I still believe the nation thinks Brexit could have been any easy switch.

Rather than understanding this would be a process which could take a decade or more.

In fact regards trade its never ending.

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 Post Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:07 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
I still believe the nation thinks Brexit could have been any easy switch.

Rather than understanding this would be a process which could take a decade or more.

In fact regards trade its never ending.


It would have been easier if truly supported by those MP's who's constituents voted leave...or even if supported by the PM herself- neither are true.

I think those who thought it would be easy were deluding themselves.

It was never going to be easy , but that doesn't mean it shoudn't be done, but done correctly and with commitment , not this half arsed approach that has been allowed - nay encouraged.

As for ongoing trade surely everyone knew that would continue - in the same way as for every other country in the world?


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 Post Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:45 pm 
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davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
I still believe the nation thinks Brexit could have been any easy switch.

Rather than understanding this would be a process which could take a decade or more.

In fact regards trade its never ending.


It would have been easier if truly supported by those MP's who's constituents voted leave...or even if supported by the PM herself- neither are true.

I think those who thought it would be easy were deluding themselves.

It was never going to be easy , but that doesn't mean it shoudn't be done, but done correctly and with commitment , not this half arsed approach that has been allowed - nay encouraged.

As for ongoing trade surely everyone knew that would continue - in the same way as for every other country in the world?


Politicians come and go. Money and trade make the world go round. Something all involved in the process seem to have forgotten. Ego, personal interest, whatever, it matters not. All trumped by money in the end. Political dogma has started many a revolution. All revolutions come to an end when the citizens of the country want and need to make money. Ask the Chinese, ask the Russians, ask the bloody Cubans, Ask them all how their revolution went ? Does anyone think the political punishment of the UK by the EU would last two minutes after Dutch flower sellers, German car manufacturers, French wine makers felt the pinch ? The threats are all simply bollocks. Made by men who think they are important, who would soon find out just how important they really are, when their respective leaders of Industry want to trade with the lucrative market that is the UK. Not jingoism, simply how the real world works.

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 Post Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:41 am 
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When you move outside a trade body you do so on different terms, often very difficult terms as your producers struggle with standards and regulations.
Fresh paperwork as you have to develop new procedure. Meanwhile that very large market you left looks after its own, and why shouldn't it.

The UK has to grasp the fact its less significant than it thought.

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