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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:19 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
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The UK wasn't prepared for meticulous negotiations. For a start, it would have to establish a domestic cross party consensus. Instead of which, an unpopular govt invoked A50 with a set of contentious and unworkable red lines and has been flailing about since.


Corbyn called for Article 50 to be invoked immediately on the morning of June 24, 2016.

He then whipped all Labour MPs to vote for the invocation of Article 50 when it was brought before Parliament, before any eventual destination of negotiations were set out, before any cross-party consensus was on the table.


He had little choice, the people had voted, he leads a democratic party.

It was then up to the government to deliver an exit which would look after the interests of the nation.

The Tories were aware of Labours five key conditions.


And what were they again KK ?

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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:27 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
It was then up to the government to deliver an exit which would look after the interests of the nation.


And yet you tell us time and again "Never trust a Tory". Corbyn effectively did just that by giving the government a blank cheque to handle negotiations exactly as they saw fit.

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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:39 am 
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shropswolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
It was then up to the government to deliver an exit which would look after the interests of the nation.


And yet you tell us time and again "Never trust a Tory". Corbyn effectively did just that by giving the government a blank cheque to handle negotiations exactly as they saw fit.


As the opposition what else could he do?

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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:46 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
It was then up to the government to deliver an exit which would look after the interests of the nation.


And yet you tell us time and again "Never trust a Tory". Corbyn effectively did just that by giving the government a blank cheque to handle negotiations exactly as they saw fit.


As the opposition what else could he do?


Try to block that Article 50 was triggered until the country had a very clear plan of what it wanted to achieve. Continued single market membership? No-deal? A middle road?

By helping start the clock running before even the fundamentals were agreed the road to the present negotiating failure was opened.

The end result will be a lot of turbulence for the country as a whole and job losses for Labour constituents.

A very bad audition for this Labour party to demonstrate it has the cool tactical thinking to steer a country through stormy waters when it makes such a contribution toward leading us there int he first place.

The only reason Article 50 was triggered when it was was to help May win an election, which she then spectacularly failed to do. So the end result was the worst of all worlds for the exit process.

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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:42 am 
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Maybe Jeremy Corbyn had to follow suit to prevent a Tory landslide, given the negative spin the right wing press would have given Labour should they have not supported the voters choice.

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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:45 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Maybe Jeremy Corbyn had to follow suit to prevent a Tory landslide, given the negative spin the right wing press would have given Labour should they have not supported the voters choice.


Or maybe you are making an incorrect assumption based on your own prejudices.

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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:41 am 
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Interesting article of the internal fight within the EU over Brexit.

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/ ... e-craters/

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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:57 pm 
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Gove, Jan 2019: The Withdrawal Agreement is “the best possible deal for the British people.”

Gove, Aug 2019: “We’ve been absolutely clear that we need to change the Withdrawal Agreement.”

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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:18 pm 
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We have a European bureaucracy totally unaccountable to anybody, powers have gone from national parliaments - they haven't gone to the European Parliament, they've gone to the Commission and to some extent the Council of Ministers. These are quite serious matters.

— Jeremy Corbyn views on the European Union in 1996, Labour Party conference, 1996 [205

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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:26 pm 
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'The North has to take back power from our centralised state with real powers to invest and take decisions". Corbyn...
The Northern Labour voter predominantly voted leave. Corbyn and the Islington cabal seem to have ignored them?

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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:32 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Gove, Jan 2019: The Withdrawal Agreement is “the best possible deal for the British people.”

Gove, Aug 2019: “We’ve been absolutely clear that we need to change the Withdrawal Agreement.”



Corbyn 2017 Election "We will respect the result of the referendum"

Corbyn 2019 "We believe the public should have a vote to decide whether it should be no deal or remain in the eu"

Contexts change. I suspect you are taking Gove's comments out of context in that the first would have been said when the government was still looking to obtain agreement for the deal in parliament, the second when it is now known that the deal cannot be passed through parliament in its current form and therefore needs to be changed in order to make it possible. It is simply about the practicalities of achieving an agreement now just as Corbyn changed his mind because he felt it was prudent to do so within his party.

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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:45 pm 
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Speaker of the United States House of Representatives
Nancy Pelosi on US-UK Trade deal

“If Brexit undermines the Good Friday accord, there will be no chance of a U.S.-U.K. trade agreement passing the Congress."

Very strong Irish lobby would prevent a deal.

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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:11 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Speaker of the United States House of Representatives
Nancy Pelosi on US-UK Trade deal

“If Brexit undermines the Good Friday accord, there will be no chance of a U.S.-U.K. trade agreement passing the Congress."

Very strong Irish lobby would prevent a deal.


OK I'm gunna bite -tried not to but can't help it.

The IRA was funded for years by the 'Irish' yanks -they all love their 'heritage' don't they- until they got a dose of terrorism on their own shores that soon changed the dynamic did it not.

Its interesting that they target the UK in this - why not target the EU as well?

There are two sides to a negotiation- & haven't we already said we will not put a physical border up so I cant see what the problem is - maybe they can get more out of the EU this way than they can us.

We should NEVER let a foreign country who has vested interests and/or a partisan view of the issue dictate to us , as we should never let the threat of terrorism dictate our decisions

Both of which seem to be paramount here.

Internal politics in America is also playing a part- as it always does.

Wankers the yanks - always have been, always will be- special relationship my arse-everyone is out for themselves.

I'm going to hazard a guess their capitalism means you like em either - but it suits your current argument I suppose.


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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:02 pm 
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davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Speaker of the United States House of Representatives
Nancy Pelosi on US-UK Trade deal

“If Brexit undermines the Good Friday accord, there will be no chance of a U.S.-U.K. trade agreement passing the Congress."

Very strong Irish lobby would prevent a deal.


OK I'm gunna bite -tried not to but can't help it.

The IRA was funded for years by the 'Irish' yanks -they all love their 'heritage' don't they- until they got a dose of terrorism on their own shores that soon changed the dynamic did it not.

Its interesting that they target the UK in this - why not target the EU as well?

There are two sides to a negotiation- & haven't we already said we will not put a physical border up so I cant see what the problem is - maybe they can get more out of the EU this way than they can us.

We should NEVER let a foreign country who has vested interests and/or a partisan view of the issue dictate to us , as we should never let the threat of terrorism dictate our decisions

Both of which seem to be paramount here.

Internal politics in America is also playing a part- as it always does.

Wankers the yanks - always have been, always will be- special relationship my arse-everyone is out for themselves.

I'm going to hazard a guess their capitalism means you like em either - but it suits your current argument I suppose.


Yep, when all those "Boston has always stood against terrorism" speeches were being made, they forgot to mention NORAID and the' tin'.

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 Post Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:15 am 
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The "Tin" was for 'The boys behind the wire' and had nothing to do with supporting or condoning terrorism...…….. erm.

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 Post Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:56 am 
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Rozza wrote:
The "Tin" was for 'The boys behind the wire' and had nothing to do with supporting or condoning terrorism...…….. erm.


Some Septic tried to sell me a "Boston Strong" bracelet. I larfed and larfed and larfed.

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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:25 am 
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davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Speaker of the United States House of Representatives
Nancy Pelosi on US-UK Trade deal

“If Brexit undermines the Good Friday accord, there will be no chance of a U.S.-U.K. trade agreement passing the Congress."

Very strong Irish lobby would prevent a deal.


OK I'm gunna bite -tried not to but can't help it.

The IRA was funded for years by the 'Irish' yanks -they all love their 'heritage' don't they- until they got a dose of terrorism on their own shores that soon changed the dynamic did it not.

Its interesting that they target the UK in this - why not target the EU as well?

There are two sides to a negotiation- & haven't we already said we will not put a physical border up so I cant see what the problem is - maybe they can get more out of the EU this way than they can us.

We should NEVER let a foreign country who has vested interests and/or a partisan view of the issue dictate to us , as we should never let the threat of terrorism dictate our decisions

Both of which seem to be paramount here.

Internal politics in America is also playing a part- as it always does.

Wankers the yanks - always have been, always will be- special relationship my arse-everyone is out for themselves.

I'm going to hazard a guess their capitalism means you like em either - but it suits your current argument I suppose.


Can you break this down a little and educate me please, I don't quite understand many of the points your making, thanks.

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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:58 am 
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KFC warns it could run out of food in a No Deal Brexit

There are upsides I guess.

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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:31 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
KFC warns it could run out of food in a No Deal Brexit

There are upsides I guess.


Them and McD cannot be classed as selling "food" of any type..:-)

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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:49 pm 
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Good to see the NHS is still using clowns to brighten up ill youngsters' days on the wards.

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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:43 pm 
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The backstop is an insurance to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland unless and until an alternative is found. Those against the backstop and not proposing realistic alternatives in fact support reestablishing a border. Even if they do not admit it.

Donald Tusk.

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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:55 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
The backstop is an insurance to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland unless and until an alternative is found. Those against the backstop and not proposing realistic alternatives in fact support reestablishing a border. Even if they do not admit it.

Donald Tusk.


Utter nonsense. The Irish Republic categorically state they will not initiate a hard border. The UK government has said the same. So who will?

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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:14 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
The backstop is an insurance to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland unless and until an alternative is found. Those against the backstop and not proposing realistic alternatives in fact support reestablishing a border. Even if they do not admit it.

Donald Tusk.


Do you think Corbyn whipped his MPs three times to help bring about the likelihood of a hard border as part of his ultimate dream for a united Ireland or is it sour grapes that the Good Friday Agreement was achieved on Tony Blair's watch?

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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:56 pm 
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shropswolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
The backstop is an insurance to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland unless and until an alternative is found. Those against the backstop and not proposing realistic alternatives in fact support reestablishing a border. Even if they do not admit it.

Donald Tusk.


Do you think Corbyn whipped his MPs three times to help bring about the likelihood of a hard border as part of his ultimate dream for a united Ireland or is it sour grapes that the Good Friday Agreement was achieved on Tony Blair's watch?


The records show that Jeremy Corbyn was part of the negotiating team at the request of Mo Mowlam.

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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:14 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
The backstop is an insurance to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland unless and until an alternative is found. Those against the backstop and not proposing realistic alternatives in fact support reestablishing a border. Even if they do not admit it.

Donald Tusk.


Do you think Corbyn whipped his MPs three times to help bring about the likelihood of a hard border as part of his ultimate dream for a united Ireland or is it sour grapes that the Good Friday Agreement was achieved on Tony Blair's watch?


The records show that Jeremy Corbyn was part of the negotiating team at the request of Mo Mowlam.


A number of IRA men were consulted. Jeremy was just one of them

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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:33 am 
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Johnson travelling to Berlin today presumably to meet those German car manufacturers who will give us the easiest trade deal in history.

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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:24 pm 
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shropswolf wrote:
Johnson travelling to Berlin today presumably to meet those German car manufacturers who will give us the easiest trade deal in history.


I suspect you're right. The German car manufacturers will just have to give up on their largest European market to punish boy-racer-reps, all across Britain.

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 Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:56 am 
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shropswolf wrote:
Johnson travelling to Berlin today presumably to meet those German car manufacturers who will give us the easiest trade deal in history.


Wow....How did you know ?

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 Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:46 pm 
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Germany is on the verge of a long recession so need some UK sweeteners, however, Macron and Tusk will not move an inch, so it's a hard Brexit for certain. I do also think that Boris has maneouvered this by visiting Berlin and Paris only to come back and say: "Sorry they will not re-deal or take out the backstop, so it's a hard no deal, guys." We'll soon see and if there is Parliamentary interference, then it'll get messy indeed.

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 Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:09 pm 
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Angela Merkel is being very helpful to Boris Johnson saying:

"Britain should tell us what ideas it has" for the backstop. "We would like to hear proposals put on the table."

Waste of your breathe Angela the Tories talk the talk but deliver fuck all.

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