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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:16 pm 
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Many folk don't seem to realise the tough negotiations would start as soon as the UK walked away with NO DEAL.

Even those trade deals previously negotiated with the USA, China, Japan were done through the EU.

The UK negotiating from scratch, just imagine how that goes and who has the leverage.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:24 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Many folk don't seem to realise the tough negotiations would start as soon as the UK walked away with NO DEAL.

Even those trade deals previously negotiated with the USA, China, Japan were done through the EU.

The UK negotiating from scratch, just imagine how that goes and who has the leverage.


Once we leave the EU we have to negotiate with those countries anyway- so there will be NO difference to that.


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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:20 pm 
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davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Many folk don't seem to realise the tough negotiations would start as soon as the UK walked away with NO DEAL.

Even those trade deals previously negotiated with the USA, China, Japan were done through the EU.

The UK negotiating from scratch, just imagine how that goes and who has the leverage.


Once we leave the EU we have to negotiate with those countries anyway- so there will be NO difference to that.


Massive difference if your a tiddler in the pool or a shark.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:40 pm 
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This Government wants the people to decide the future. The opposition do not.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:03 am 
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suiging wrote:
This Government wants the people to decide the future. The opposition do not.


Carry on

You have our attention.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:14 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
suiging wrote:
This Government wants the people to decide the future. The opposition do not.


Carry on

You have our attention.


Looks like a complete statement to me.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:46 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Many folk don't seem to realise the tough negotiations would start as soon as the UK walked away with NO DEAL.

Even those trade deals previously negotiated with the USA, China, Japan were done through the EU.

The UK negotiating from scratch, just imagine how that goes and who has the leverage.


Once we leave the EU we have to negotiate with those countries anyway- so there will be NO difference to that.


Massive difference if your a tiddler in the pool or a shark.


So just to be clear you want us to stay in the EU.


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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:13 pm 
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]Many folk don't seem to realise the tough negotiations would start as soon as the UK walked away with NO DEAL.

Even those trade deals previously negotiated with the USA, China, Japan were done through the EU.

The UK negotiating from scratch, just imagine how that goes and who has the leverage.[/quote]

Once we leave the EU we have to negotiate with those countries anyway- so there will be NO difference to that.[/quote]

Massive difference if your a tiddler in the pool or a shark.[/quote]

So just to be clear you want us to stay in the EU.[/quote]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My anger is directed at those who failed to deliver a soft Brexit which would have looked after the nations interests.
A platform from which to develop a European trading block.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:49 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
]Many folk don't seem to realise the tough negotiations would start as soon as the UK walked away with NO DEAL.

Even those trade deals previously negotiated with the USA, China, Japan were done through the EU.

The UK negotiating from scratch, just imagine how that goes and who has the leverage.


Once we leave the EU we have to negotiate with those countries anyway- so there will be NO difference to that.[/quote]

Massive difference if your a tiddler in the pool or a shark.[/quote]

So just to be clear you want us to stay in the EU.[/quote]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My anger is directed at those who failed to deliver a soft Brexit which would have looked after the nations interests.
A platform from which to develop a European trading block.[/quote]

That might have been achieved with appropriate Labour support for Mrs May at the right times.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:01 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
]Many folk don't seem to realise the tough negotiations would start as soon as the UK walked away with NO DEAL.

Even those trade deals previously negotiated with the USA, China, Japan were done through the EU.

The UK negotiating from scratch, just imagine how that goes and who has the leverage.


Once we leave the EU we have to negotiate with those countries anyway- so there will be NO difference to that.[/quote]

Massive difference if your a tiddler in the pool or a shark.[/quote]

So just to be clear you want us to stay in the EU.[/quote]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My anger is directed at those who failed to deliver a soft Brexit which would have looked after the nations interests.
A platform from which to develop a European trading block.[/quote]

Like the Original EU was you mean - until Blair & Major took us further in with no option to choose.

Those two are the real villans.


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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:55 am 
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davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
]Many folk don't seem to realise the tough negotiations would start as soon as the UK walked away with NO DEAL.

Even those trade deals previously negotiated with the USA, China, Japan were done through the EU.

The UK negotiating from scratch, just imagine how that goes and who has the leverage.


Once we leave the EU we have to negotiate with those countries anyway- so there will be NO difference to that.


Massive difference if your a tiddler in the pool or a shark.[/quote]

So just to be clear you want us to stay in the EU.[/quote]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My anger is directed at those who failed to deliver a soft Brexit which would have looked after the nations interests.
A platform from which to develop a European trading block.[/quote]

Like the Original EU was you mean - until Blair & Major took us further in with no option to choose.

Those two are the real villans.[/quote]

Labour gave fair warning of this in the early eighties while the usual suspects decried those speeches as left wing rhetoric

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:08 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:

Labour gave fair warning of this in the early eighties while the usual suspects decried those speeches as left wing rhetoric



It would be useful to have some specific about who you are referring to and what they said at the time - we all know how perceptions can vary according to one's beliefs. My recall is that in the early 80's Labour's position was for withdrawal from the then EEC and they promised to do so had they gained power in 1983. So given that Boris is looking to do now what they wanted to do then what exactly were they warning about and who were the usual suspects who decried them?

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:51 am 
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There are few things which television is good for, possibly the largest stain on human development this past half century.

The house of commons going out live each day being a perfect example of how standards have fallen because MPs have now become contestants.

News programmes have become the descendants of those Esther Ranson shows without the sausage.


But we are able to look back to when REAL political debate took place during the infancy of that medium.

Here's Michael Foot and Ted Heath in an adult debate about the UK losing its democracy to the unelected EEC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuZrzwm6CJs

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:18 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
There are few things which television is good for, possibly the largest stain on human development this past half century.

The house of commons going out live each day being a perfect example of how standards have fallen because MPs have now become contestants.

News programmes have become the descendants of those Esther Ranson shows without the sausage.


But we are able to look back to when REAL political debate took place during the infancy of that medium.

Here's Michael Foot and Ted Heath in an adult debate about the UK losing its democracy to the unelected EEC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuZrzwm6CJs


The biggest highflyers today go into the private sector, not into politics.

The UK political scene is thus largely inhabited by those who are already loaded from their career elsewhere and who enter to seek to protect their wealth and enhance their personal fame or those who simply aren't skilled enough to thrive on the open market of industry.

For all that people rail against MPs' pay, an increase in wage might actually tempt those with the necessary intellectual skills to go into politics rather than the private sector in the first place.

The fact that the Labour leader has almost no employment history and achieved 2 E-grades in his A-levels despite attending a decent academic institution speaks either for his blind laziness or his blind stupidity. His lack of ability to grasp and utilise great swathes of detail, which SHOULD be a prerequsiite of a prime minister, is repeatedly shown up in his performances in the HoC.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:44 pm 
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Some folk think a GE will solve Brexit once and for all.

They are deluded.

With the current system in place to elect MPs (First Past the Post), it is not a true reflection of the countries overall position as to who wants what, all it will do is end up with another hung parliament situation.

We need at least another 2 referendums, but the first options should be "Deal" or "No Deal"

Remain CANNOT be on the first ballot paper as will split the leave vote.

The 2nd referendum, will then highlight the consequences of the first result vs remain, which is then put back to the people.

Only then can the government carry out the "will of the people"

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:35 pm 
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champions wrote:
Some folk think a GE will solve Brexit once and for all.

They are deluded.

With the current system in place to elect MPs (First Past the Post), it is not a true reflection of the countries overall position as to who wants what, all it will do is end up with another hung parliament situation.

We need at least another 2 referendums, but the first options should be "Deal" or "No Deal"

Remain CANNOT be on the first ballot paper as will split the leave vote.

The 2nd referendum, will then highlight the consequences of the first result vs remain, which is then put back to the people.

Only then can the government carry out the "will of the people"


I cannot disagree more.


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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:47 pm 
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Left back wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:

Labour gave fair warning of this in the early eighties while the usual suspects decried those speeches as left wing rhetoric



It would be useful to have some specific about who you are referring to and what they said at the time - we all know how perceptions can vary according to one's beliefs. My recall is that in the early 80's Labour's position was for withdrawal from the then EEC and they promised to do so had they gained power in 1983. So given that Boris is looking to do now what they wanted to do then what exactly were they warning about and who were the usual suspects who decried them?


Is the discussion between Michael Foot and Ted Heath your evidence that Labour warned us in the early 80's? The only possible warning I can hear there is that Foot believed further involvement with the EEC would be a loss of sovereignty for the UK. As the Labour policy at the moment is about staying in the EU or agreeing a better deal to get out and then voting against it I don't see how it can possibly be interpreted as a fair warning of the current position. It seems that you are making broad sweeping statements again without any evidence to back them up.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:05 pm 
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Left back wrote:
Left back wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:

Labour gave fair warning of this in the early eighties while the usual suspects decried those speeches as left wing rhetoric


Labour have been a 'Free Trade' movement since conception. That's why this bunch of Islington cowboys has nothing in common whatsoever with genuine Labour supporters

It would be useful to have some specific about who you are referring to and what they said at the time - we all know how perceptions can vary according to one's beliefs. My recall is that in the early 80's Labour's position was for withdrawal from the then EEC and they promised to do so had they gained power in 1983. So given that Boris is looking to do now what they wanted to do then what exactly were they warning about and who were the usual suspects who decried them?


Is the discussion between Michael Foot and Ted Heath your evidence that Labour warned us in the early 80's? The only possible warning I can hear there is that Foot believed further involvement with the EEC would be a loss of sovereignty for the UK. As the Labour policy at the moment is about staying in the EU or agreeing a better deal to get out and then voting against it I don't see how it can possibly be interpreted as a fair warning of the current position. It seems that you are making broad sweeping statements again without any evidence to back them up.


Labour have been a 'Free Trade' movement since conception. That's why this bunch of Islington cowboys has nothing in common whatsoever with genuine Labour supporters

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:09 am 
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shropswolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
There are few things which television is good for, possibly the largest stain on human development this past half century.

The house of commons going out live each day being a perfect example of how standards have fallen because MPs have now become contestants.

News programmes have become the descendants of those Esther Ranson shows without the sausage.


But we are able to look back to when REAL political debate took place during the infancy of that medium.

Here's Michael Foot and Ted Heath in an adult debate about the UK losing its democracy to the unelected EEC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuZrzwm6CJs


The biggest highflyers today go into the private sector, not into politics.

The UK political scene is thus largely inhabited by those who are already loaded from their career elsewhere and who enter to seek to protect their wealth and enhance their personal fame or those who simply aren't skilled enough to thrive on the open market of industry.

For all that people rail against MPs' pay, an increase in wage might actually tempt those with the necessary intellectual skills to go into politics rather than the private sector in the first place.

The fact that the Labour leader has almost no employment history and achieved 2 E-grades in his A-levels despite attending a decent academic institution speaks either for his blind laziness or his blind stupidity. His lack of ability to grasp and utilise great swathes of detail, which SHOULD be a prerequsiite of a prime minister, is repeatedly shown up in his performances in the HoC.


As we see with Johnson hiring an outside expert maybe ALL parties have to hire brains to help them deliver on policy that works.

At the most you can currently identify maybe 50 MPs from the whole house who have the ability and the willingness to further the nations interests, not just a few within the nation.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:54 am 
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Can someone solve this riddle for me?

Working class people shaking the hand of and taking selfies with an Eton and Oxford educated, pompous, arrogant, spoiled, self serving liar who doesn’t give a flying fuck for them and lives in a completely parallel world?

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:08 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Can someone solve this riddle for me?

Working class people shaking the hand of and taking selfies with an Eton and Oxford educated, pompous, arrogant, spoiled, self serving liar who doesn’t give a flying fuck for them and lives in a completely parallel world?


I have recently read a few books by PG Wodehouse regarding Bertie Wooster and his manservant Jeeves.
The lives and trials of the characters inside were galaxies away from my own life experiences and status but I was able to detach myself from petty bitter and twisted cynicism and enjoyed the tomes for what they are.

Sorted, next!

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:23 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Can someone solve this riddle for me?

Working class people shaking the hand of and taking selfies with an Eton and Oxford educated, pompous, arrogant, spoiled, self serving liar who doesn’t give a flying fuck for them and lives in a completely parallel world?


Probably something to do with them rather doing that than supporting some backwater educated IRA supporting republican marxist c*** who's sole aim along with his so called 'cabinet' is to undermine all that Britain stands for and return it to a 70's Marxist 'Nirvana'.

The 'working class people' don't want this KK, and the riddle to me and many others is why you and you Momentum chums think they do.


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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:12 am 
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davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Can someone solve this riddle for me?

Working class people shaking the hand of and taking selfies with an Eton and Oxford educated, pompous, arrogant, spoiled, self serving liar who doesn’t give a flying fuck for them and lives in a completely parallel world?


Probably something to do with them rather doing that than supporting some backwater educated IRA supporting republican marxist c*** who's sole aim along with his so called 'cabinet' is to undermine all that Britain stands for and return it to a 70's Marxist 'Nirvana'.

The 'working class people' don't want this KK, and the riddle to me and many others is why you and you Momentum chums think they do.


I get the fact that some might not like Jeremy Corbyn but don't get why anyone would wish to shake the hand of Johnson.
It is possible to dislike both.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:24 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:

I get the fact that some might not like Jeremy Corbyn but don't get why anyone would wish to shake the hand of Johnson.
It is possible to dislike both.



Fair comment.


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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:00 pm 
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A new false narrative centres on fears that a government led by the Labour leader poses a mortal threat to the British economy

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/d ... emy-corbyn

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:36 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
A new false narrative centres on fears that a government led by the Labour leader poses a mortal threat to the British economy

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/d ... emy-corbyn


The "falseness" of the narrative is based on the opinion of this one journalist and I admit he gives good reasons but they are still basically assumptions he makes - just different from those of the two or three respected journalists he quotes. There are many who fear a Marxist style government just as there are many who fear a right wing Johnson Tory government. I regularly read things both ways.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:46 pm 
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I dread a Corbyn / McDonnell duo in charge as much as a Johnson / Cummings duo..totally frightening. Where can we turn to nowadays for respectable, decent and proactive politicians..??

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:04 pm 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
I dread a Corbyn / McDonnell duo in charge as much as a Johnson / Cummings duo..totally frightening. Where can we turn to nowadays for respectable, decent and proactive politicians..??


Jo Swinson ??....sorry I was trying to keep a straight face whilst I typed that and I can't.


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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:23 pm 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
I dread a Corbyn / McDonnell duo in charge as much as a Johnson / Cummings duo..totally frightening. Where can we turn to nowadays for respectable, decent and proactive politicians..??


You forgot the McCluskey triplet in the background mate. He's more sinister than the both n um.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:38 pm 
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Its likely that the country is in for a period of coalition government where the largest party will have to drop its more extreme policies.

Be that right or left they will have to govern by consensus which should allay the fears of many.

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