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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:14 am 
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It would be interesting for me at least to get a feeling from fellow Members about your thoughts as to whether Britain should stay or leave the Union?

Now, besides the tabloid press and even Politicians blaming the EU for everything bad and making it a scapegoat for our own inefficiency to run the country properly, do you really want to go back to Duty Free Shopping in airports and ports. Do you want to have to get a visa every time you want to go on a weekend jolly to Prague, Budapest, Amsterdam or wherever?

Do you want to have to pay import duties on anything that comes into the UK from Europe? I can appreciate the sometimes unfairness that appears on the surface when Brussels says you must do this or that, but has the EU forced Britain to adopt the Euro for example; does Britain adopt all of the EU's directives to the letter, no it doesn't.

Anyone wish to list the advantages of staying in the Union? Should there ever be a referendum, please think very carefully before placing your X next to the OUT option as you might just well find yourselves totally isolated and completely frozen out of the markets. Britain cannot feed itself from its own resources.

If Britain is controlled from Brussels then why is it that we have the most expensive Fuel prices, why is it that Cigarettes cost more in Britain than any other EU country (at a guess), why do we refer to Britain as rip-off Britain. Must be the cost of all those EU nationals picking fruit and potatoes in the Fens I guess or, that old Chestnut about all those other Eastern Europeans coming over here and living at our expense and taking our jobs, but hey, those Kosovans, Afghanis, Iraqis, Serbs, Russians, Asians, Latin Americano's they all from the EU - right! :roll:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/07/14/uk-britain-europe-idUKBRE96D0FF20130714

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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:30 am 
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The problem is there is now no viable alternative.

If we had kept at the head of a vibrant Commonwealth, the power of that block could have demanded the concessions from the EU it required, just like the good old USA does now. Australia, Canada, the Indian sub-continent and Africa the next economic power house, now that would be some trading block.

If we left the EU just about everyone would die laughing and piss on us (even more than they do now)......

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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:54 am 
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In, without it the Juggernaut crushing the working class would speed up under the idle rich.
Plus we would lose article 25 of the Human Right Act.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:27 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
In, without it the Juggernaut crushing the working class would speed up under the idle rich.
Plus we would lose article 25 of the Human Right Act.


Ah yes the dreaded Human Rights act so oft quoted as something that stops us meting out true justice.

trouble is some people just don't deserve Rights ...trouble is I'm not sure who should decide who those people are.

well apart from me obviously - I should decide ...but I don't trust anyone else!

As for in or out is is a tricky one ...I see even India are putting their economic weight behind us stopping in , saying any trade treaty with us depends on us staying in.

oh how the mighty have fallen eh.


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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:17 am 
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http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2 ... obless.php

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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:16 pm 
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I had to write essays on this on college, Christ knows why so much time was spent on this when I was studying accountancy....

I have no feelings either way, both have there positives and negatives, and neither change wouldnt mean anything with european union being poorly run and our own country being poorly run.

I personally get the feeling that if we stop in everyone will eventually say get out, and if we get out everyone will eventually say let's get back in.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:00 pm 
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If 'some people don't deserve rights'. Then they're not really rights are they? more like privileges that the government can take away from you when they see fit.

Rights are given to everyone when they are born, no one can take them away from you just because they don't like you or think its politically convenient to do so. If you say you can take some rights away from some people, then effectively you're saying all rights for ANYONE is up for negotiation. Which I'm sure we all wouldn't like. :oops:

Yes, it's annoying when people do shitty things and still get to dictate what happens to them. But circumstances like this are actually pretty rare, the media just loves to shine a spotlight on them to push their own agendas (see immigration, benefits for other examples of that). But I firmly believe that's a small price to pay for the rights of everyone else to be upheld.

Do you really want the Tories in charge of your human rights? HA! :lol:

Oh, and as to the topic. Very much 'In' for me. The US and China are going to war over trade, it won't be long until Brazil and India join them. I firmly believe we'll stand a much better chance as part of the EU than as a little nation on our own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... nominal%29 gives a showing of how big the EU is compared to other economies. That's amplified when you consider the US and EU are in the process of negotiating a joint trading bloc. http://www.dw.de/the-biggest-trade-deal-ever/a-16945462


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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:37 pm 
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Mike_wolf wrote:
I had to write essays on this on college, Christ knows why so much time was spent on this when I was studying accountancy....

I have no feelings either way, both have there positives and negatives, and neither change wouldnt mean anything with european union being poorly run and our own country being poorly run.

I personally get the feeling that if we stop in everyone will eventually say get out, and if we get out everyone will eventually say let's get back in.


Mike, I'm no historian or saying that I am right (this time), but I have this distant memory that the forerunner of the EU was something called the Common Market and GREAT Britain as it was still then opted out of joining it. Later it decided it ought to be a part of it and was blocked no less than 3 times by France's Super Conk, Charles De Gaul.

Great Britain had to pay an enormous amount of money to the rest of the Market to eventually get in and is probably why, successive Governments since Maggie have been trying to claw our contribution to the EU back. We're not the biggest contributors nowadays, I think that Germany is, but you can (should you choose to accept the Mission) check out all of the above on tinternet and put me right if I am wrong. :wink:

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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:44 am 
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Stay in, but reluctantly. Sadly we are too far down the road to have any other option.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:10 pm 
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In.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:18 pm 
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out


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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:10 am 
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Do the Hokey Cokey.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:15 am 
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Left back wrote:
Do the Hokey Cokey.


You've dissapointed me LB - I expected the 'shake it all about' line from you

i did set it up after all :)


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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:18 am 
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davejonesears wrote:
Left back wrote:
Do the Hokey Cokey.


You've dissapointed me LB - I expected the 'shake it all about' line from you

i did set it up after all :)


I'm not that witty. You needed Rozza.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:07 pm 
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davejonesears wrote:
Left back wrote:
Do the Hokey Cokey.


You've dissapointed me LB - I expected the 'shake it all about' line from you

i did set it up after all :)


He don't do, 'Shake it all About' nowadays in case it drops off. :wink:

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Moscow Wolf wrote:
davejonesears wrote:
Left back wrote:
Do the Hokey Cokey.


You've dissapointed me LB - I expected the 'shake it all about' line from you

i did set it up after all :)


He don't do, 'Shake it all About' nowadays in case it drops off. :wink:


You know me too well Moscow - have you had those spies on me again?

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:38 pm 
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Beware of the Albanian handyman

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:20 pm 
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Personally, I think the European Courts got this decision correct albeit, I do wonder if the UK wanting a Referendum to decide the In or Out vote had anything to do with it.

Think that I have made my position quite clear that I wish the UK to remain in the EU as A. I believe in it and B. I don't want to have to request Bulgarian citizenship or at least a visa to remain here - Anyway:-

Curbs on Benefit Tourism

It should give Cameron legal grounds to stop paying the social scroungers that are not British from the EU at least, but don't necessarily stop your Refugees from non-EU countries of which there are hundreds of thousands bleeding the welfare state.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Left Back (second left), sporting a natty plaid tie, get's in to the spirit. A few Milds later, and they all did the conga back to Chez Back, where they threw their house keys in to a hat.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:45 pm 
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Embers wrote:
Left Back (second left), sporting a natty plaid tie, get's in to the spirit. A few Milds later, and they all did the conga back to Chez Back, where they threw their house keys in to a hat.

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Stop looking up my trouser leg.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:48 pm 
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Left back wrote:
Embers wrote:
Left Back (second left), sporting a natty plaid tie, get's in to the spirit. A few Milds later, and they all did the conga back to Chez Back, where they threw their house keys in to a hat.

Image


Stop looking up my trouser leg.


Leftie, that was obviously before your hip replacement, because that is Moulin Rouge standard :lol: The bloke on the right is just trying to shake a turd down his strides.

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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:13 am 
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In or out the British people deserve better government than they have received for at least half a century.

I hope one day the standard of living for the UK rivals that of Germany and France, with 35 hour weeks and two months holiday.
Also to lift the spending on front line services to the same levels, as an example France spends up to a billion extra on their superb NHS.

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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:20 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
In or out the British people deserve better government than they have received for at least half a century.

I hope one day the standard of living for the UK rivals that of Germany and France, with 35 hour weeks and two months holiday.
Also to lift the spending on front line services to the same levels, as an example France spends up to a billion extra on their superb NHS.


35 hour weeks, imagine that! There are colleagues of mine, who've been doing 50 hour plus weeks, for the past two years. The one berk is in at 0730, and regularly stays until 1830-1900 hours. He has two young kids like me. Working for Americans you see.

The thing with The UK, is that we're just piggy-in-the-middle between Europe and the US. Europe want us to live like they do, and the US uses us as it sees fit, and we've inherited the worse bits of their 'culture'.

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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:41 pm 
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Embers wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
In or out the British people deserve better government than they have received for at least half a century.

I hope one day the standard of living for the UK rivals that of Germany and France, with 35 hour weeks and two months holiday.
Also to lift the spending on front line services to the same levels, as an example France spends up to a billion extra on their superb NHS.


35 hour weeks, imagine that! There are colleagues of mine, who've been doing 50 hour plus weeks, for the past two years. The one berk is in at 0730, and regularly stays until 1830-1900 hours. He has two young kids like me. Working for Americans you see.

The thing with The UK, is that we're just piggy-in-the-middle between Europe and the US. Europe want us to live like they do, and the US uses us as it sees fit, and we've inherited the worse bits of their 'culture'.


Very true...we seem to think that the US way of business is the correct model...the harder we workthe better for everyone...cus if we don't work like trojans (how hard did they work btw?) then the whole country will fail ....obviously.


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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:46 pm 
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Out.


We are the fifth largest economy and there are plenty of countries who have free trade agreements with the EU (Algeria, Colombia, South Korea...).

Won't need visas all of sudden, you don't if you go to most countries in Europe not in the EU.

At the end of the day they want to create a European superstate, we don't. Expect Sweden, Denmark, our good selves etc. to move to a downgraded membership status or leave all together in due course. Free movement has been an utter catastrophe for this country, high house prices, taxes with low wages and community cohesion.

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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:49 pm 
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THE BIG BAD WOLF wrote:
Out.


We are the fifth largest economy and there are plenty of countries who have free trade agreements with the EU (Algeria, Colombia, South Korea...).

Won't need visas all of sudden, you don't if you go to most countries in Europe not in the EU.

At the end of the day they want to create a European superstate, we don't. Expect Sweden, Denmark, our good selves etc. to move to a downgraded membership status or leave all together in due course. Free movement has been an utter catastrophe for this country, high house prices, taxes with low wages and community cohesion.


Switzerland seem to do OK n'all.

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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:56 pm 
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THE BIG BAD WOLF wrote:
Out.


We are the fifth largest economy and there are plenty of countries who have free trade agreements with the EU (Algeria, Colombia, South Korea...).

Won't need visas all of sudden, you don't if you go to most countries in Europe not in the EU.

At the end of the day they want to create a European superstate, we don't. Expect Sweden, Denmark, our good selves etc. to move to a downgraded membership status or leave all together in due course. Free movement has been an utter catastrophe for this country, high house prices, taxes with low wages and community cohesion.


Whilst you were in Moscow, did the KGB/FSB turn you or something! :roll:

Free Movement has allowed hundreds of thousands of Brits to move abroad to work or retire within the EU and vice-versa. How has Freedom of Movement pushed up UK house prices surely, all of you that own UK property are rubbing your hands together with glee at the false value of it and inflated by whom exactly, not European buyers at all. Most Londoners are property Millionaires for something that would cost a couple of hundred thousand up North.

At the end of the day, I guess the UK could leave and join Putin's counter EU Alliance comprising of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan who's first trade decree was to ban synthetic knickers for woman. You couldn't make this up if you were a stand up comedian and we thought Brussels was mad.

Your spiralling costs in the UK are not from a minority of EU scroungers, but from your influx of Asians, Africans, Kosovans, Afghanis, Iraqis, Syrians and every other Tom, Dick or Harry that claims fear of brutality or death in their own country. The Daily Mail announced prior to the 01 January 14 restriction being lifted that 60 Million Bulgarians and Romanians were ready to go to the UK for handouts - FFS that would mean every living soul here packing up their stuff and heading east. :lol:

Just my opinion of course.

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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:15 am 
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Never take any notice of the British newspapers please the right wing bias increases by the decade.
The only brake that prevents a two tiered society within the UK is Europe.

Out of Europe with right wing propaganda your looking at a two tiered national health, without insurance you will be fooked.
That spread of Americanisation has to be prevented but how?

Have and have not societies have massive consequences for everyone.

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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:51 am 
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Whats the real political issues for the world at this time.

What should Politicians talk about that would get you interested.

There's some stuff thats never discussed and thats generally the stuff that has greatest effect on your life.

Here's one.

The World Bank, European monetary fund and rating agencies.

Ask Politicians of any persuasion to have a debate about how to remove interest rates from a nations debt.
How we can be rid of these organisations that leech on everyone.

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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:55 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Whats the real political issues for the world at this time.

What should Politicians talk about that would get you interested.

There's some stuff thats never discussed and thats generally the stuff that has greatest effect on your life.

Here's one.

The World Bank, European monetary fund and rating agencies.

Ask Politicians of any persuasion to have a debate about how to remove interest rates from a nations debt.
How we can be rid of these organisations that leech on everyone.


interesting...should we allow all those that cant afford to pay debt to just pay back the original loan only ...or should all thoe that lend money be extremely careful when loaning out money in the first place.


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