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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:59 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
I have been speaking to relatives in Australia this morning and they see massive trade opportunities opening up now the UK is free from EU over regulation.
There's been to many obstacles placed in the way of opening fresh markets in the previous Commonwealth countries.
South Africa, New Zealand, India these are emerging markets who will be quick to strike trade deals with the UK.

Now the British people have found some balls don't look back, look forward to the tremendous opportunities that are out there.
The UK used to lead the world through inventive thinking, developing new products, something that has stalled and stagnated within the EU.

Choose your European trade partners, France, Germany, Holland will be at the front of the queue looking to form fresh trade deals because they will fear being replaced.

Don't be frightened of change, embrace it and go for it.


Haven't we already sort of adopted Kylie and Dannii?

I'd like to see Vegemite stocked in my local co-op. :lol:

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:00 pm 
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raggedwolf wrote:
This is a victory for the Stupid ,the Old and The Racist over the intelligent the young and the openminded.

Total and utter disaster

Here comes the self inflicted recession.Worse than the last one.All to keep a bunch of Tory backbench fogeys happy.Corbyn should resign immediately as well.He was a disgrace.



Labelling people who you disagree with as the bolded above doesn't sound remotely openminded to me. :roll:

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:13 pm 
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raggedwolf wrote:
This is a victory for the Stupid ,the Old and The Racist over the intelligent the young and the openminded.

Total and utter disaster

Here comes the self inflicted recession.Worse than the last one.All to keep a bunch of Tory backbench fogeys happy.Corbyn should resign immediately as well.He was a disgrace.



do you know someone then ?


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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:51 pm 
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Yep-I work with a lot of young bright,professional people.Every single one of them voted remain as did virtually every one of my peers in the professional community.We are now all worried for our careers.

My teenage kids wanted to be part of Europe -not some kind of fusty image of England in the Fifties. They cant believe what we've done.They feel like the old have messed up their future

I have yet to meet a Leave supporter who could give me an adequate explanation as to how the economy could avoid turmoil if we voted out.Many of the Leave voters I have discussed it with based their decision on dislike of immigrants.None seemed to understand the economic risks. THERE IS NO PLAN guys

I have spent the last 3 years leading a firm out of the recession and into prosperity for the benefit of staff and clients-now it will be back to redundancies etc-for what? Defies commonsense. We have decided to follow the wisdom of Nigel Farage and the bloody Sun/Daily Mail.


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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:53 pm 
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Its not an insult if its a fair comment.


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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:00 pm 
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Great news and outcome so well done everybody :wink: the country must be full of racists and bigots ar ....

But alas some ay HAPPY and gunning for a second ballot. :roll: can this be done?


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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:18 pm 
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Its not he racists and bigots thats been the real problem-its the stupid people...

A second ballot...probably not but possibly...


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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:19 pm 
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raggedwolf wrote:
Yep-I work with a lot of young bright,professional people.Every single one of them voted remain as did virtually every one of my peers in the professional community.We are now all worried for our careers.

My teenage kids wanted to be part of Europe -not some kind of fusty image of England in the Fifties. They cant believe what we've done.They feel like the old have messed up their future

I have yet to meet a Leave supporter who could give me an adequate explanation as to how the economy could avoid turmoil if we voted out.Many of the Leave voters I have discussed it with based their decision on dislike of immigrants.None seemed to understand the economic risks. THERE IS NO PLAN guys

I have spent the last 3 years leading a firm out of the recession and into prosperity for the benefit of staff and clients-now it will be back to redundancies etc-for what? Defies commonsense. We have decided to follow the wisdom of Nigel Farage and the bloody Sun/Daily Mail.


Now in that three years you knew there was going to be a referendum and you hadn't factored that into any equation?Complacent or negligent?If i was any worker who lost their job i would look at you first for building their hopes up and being so arrogant that you thought your own personal views were that of the country. :smt109

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:33 pm 
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They know I,ve looked after them , will do again and will be at the sharp end of this stuff again,and cant be held at fault if other people make stupid decisions.

Easy thing for you to say when you're not the one standing up to take responsibility for picking up the pieces with other people's livelihoods and family homes at stake.


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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:41 pm 
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Leave, you have been duped: -

Nigel Farage: £350m NHS pledge 'a mistake'.

Another thing I read today was that the UK is likely to keep the EU Freedom of Movement rules intact to enable better trade deals with the EU.

I hope that you're now happy as you have not only started the break-up of the EU, but of the UK too. :roll:

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:46 pm 
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raggedwolf wrote:
They know I,ve looked after them , will do again and will be at the sharp end of this stuff again,and cant be held at fault if other people make stupid decisions.

Easy thing for you to say when you're not the one standing up to take responsibility for picking up the pieces with other people's livelihoods and family homes at stake.


Sorry you are the one saying you are intelligent,so you must have been so sure(given those clever experts predictions) there would be financial implications if we voted out surely....and you did what?
Your contingency plan is redundancies :lol:
Anyway give us the name of the company because it will be interesting to see where you are this time next year when pant wetting is over.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:02 pm 
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What's all this business about, the TTIP? :?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 95846.html

Quote:
The TTIP trade deal is unpopular across the political board in Britain. The controversial agreement has been revealed to include provisions for the US to degrade protections on the environment, consumer rights, and would give US companies influence over European laws.

Yet while Mr Johnson campaigns for Brexit, and putting the UK out of reach of the deal, campaigners have warned that leaving the EU would make Britain more vulnerable to being forced to accept the terms of the deal at a later stage.

Speaking to The Independent, Mark Dearn, the senior trade campaigner at War on Want said: “While voting to leave the EU would immediately remove you from TTIP, it doesn’t mean that five years from now you remain outside those powers. If TTIP goes through then it is intended as a template for all world trade.

“This would mean that if the UK exits the EU, and two or three years down the line TTIP is agreed, and we want to trade with the EU, then that is the template we would have to agree to.”

The warning comes just hours before Britain goes to the polls to vote on its continued membership of the EU.

“So bear in mind that the only way you can stop TTIP is by actually ensuring that TTIP is not agreed, not by leaving the EU,” Mr Dearn added.

The measures available to states to prevent the legislation are complex and depend on the ultimate classification of the TTIP deal.

If TTIP is classified as a ‘mixed competence deal’, the heads of state at the European Council from each member state must unanimously support it for the legislation to pass.

“In that instance one member state can veto the deal, so Corbyn, if in power, could stop the deal,” Mr Dearn said.

But if it is not classified as mixed competence then it can only be stopped by a qualified majority of states, rather than a simple veto.

“Leaving the EU would take us outside of TTIP, but to stop TTIP, you have to stop TTIP itself,” Mr Dearn added.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:33 pm 
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raggedwolf wrote:
Its not an insult if its a fair comment.


No it was an insult - your second post on the other hand was more explanatory rather than inflamatory.

Migration is a valid issue with people - and if you have led a company out of recession I would have thought you would have seen that - but its not the only issue people have with the EU - certainly not mine.

If - as it appears - you had valid input into this thread , its a pity you have waited until after the vote to air them.

Bizarrely I have seen more information about the benefits of Europe on media feeds post vote than was ever offered pre vote.


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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:13 pm 
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davejonesears wrote:
raggedwolf wrote:
Its not an insult if its a fair comment.


No it was an insult - your second post on the other hand was more explanatory rather than inflamatory.

Migration is a valid issue with people - and if you have led a company out of recession I would have thought you would have seen that - but its not the only issue people have with the EU - certainly not mine.

If - as it appears - you had valid input into this thread , its a pity you have waited until after the vote to air them.

Bizarrely I have seen more information about the benefits of Europe on media feeds post vote than was ever offered pre vote.


Such as? They were most probably there all of the time, but the BREXIT campaign lied and baffled brains on Immigration, controlling your own borders, and self determination and so on.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:49 pm 
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That many kept saying listen to the experts about what will happen if we vote stay,well it's easy to listen to experts when they are on your side,it suits your argument ffs :mrgreen:
How many times have mps listened to experts but ******* ignored them because they don't like what they hear and it doesn't suit their agenda?
You have high ranking,well educated people on both sides who tell you opposites about the economy,who does the normal voter believe for heaven's sake?
The only thing people understood was "immigration" and the stay campaign did nothing to address it,same old was not good enough.
From when Labour voters started voting BNP,to the rise in UKIP,people have been told sorry we should have listened to you please give us your vote because immigration is a worry.We were told it wasn't racist to worry about it but the tone from the stay was again the same old racist slurs on anyone who dared question it.
Whether the leave will address it properly who knows but they knew what the voters were concerned about.It was a choice of the same for stay and why the **** was that ever an option and why did they think it was :oops:
Anyway we haven't started leaving yet as i once predicted :wink:

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:52 pm 
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It's over. It's done, it's dusted...the referendum, that is.

Those who gave the replies for Leave now have to come up with the answers...it's down to them to show us that they were right as there's sweet FA that we can do about it. If it goes pear-shaped then they're bigger twats than I already thought they were but if they manage to show that they were right then fair play to them.

Time to move on.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:08 pm 
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raggedwolf wrote:
This is a victory for the Stupid ,the Old and The Racist over the intelligent the young and the openminded.

Total and utter disaster

Here comes the self inflicted recession.Worse than the last one.All to keep a bunch of Tory backbench fogeys happy.Corbyn should resign immediately as well.He was a disgrace.


Which one are you ? Intelligent? Young? Open-minded ?

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:17 pm 
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I'm not sure who told the truth in this election, all I know is we have gone from unelected people in Europe having a say in this country to unelected people in this coutry having a say in this country.

All in all it feels like a desperately sad day.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:32 pm 
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CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
I'm not sure who told the truth in this election...


Me neither and I doubt that anyone knows...it was all about gut feeling one way or another.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:52 pm 
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When we now what the actual exit deal actually is should we not have another vote to approve that actual deal- as opposed to the vague aspiration and hot air that Leave put forward without having a clue really


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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:45 pm 
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This holier than thou attitude and patronising tone now being taken by the losing side is very sad. Democracy isn't perfect, but it's the best system we have and we must accept the decision and move forward on that basis. The bickering now taking place will only cause further division.

Frankly, I was a bit of a fence sitter on this issue for a while, however the arrogance and bully boy tactics of some of the leading figures in EU pushed me towards leave.

There were exaggerations and downright untruths on both sides of the debate and I took what I heard off both sides with a pinch of salt.

It all came down to whether I trusted the people in power within the EU to make decisions with the best interests of myself and my children at heart and when I asked myself that question, my heart and my head both came up with the same answer.....NO.

It's my feeling that the EU is a club ran primarily for the benefit of the people and organisations who hold sway within it. The EU project itself has become more important than the welfare of your average European citizen.

The talk now is of the EU making an example of the UK to say to other member states, "if you leave, look what we'll do to you." It will be a shame if that happens, but if it does it will reinforce my opinion that the EU project comes before anything else.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:14 am 
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raggedwolf wrote:
Yep-I work with a lot of young bright,professional people.Every single one of them voted remain as did virtually every one of my peers in the professional community.We are now all worried for our careers.

My teenage kids wanted to be part of Europe -not some kind of fusty image of England in the Fifties. They cant believe what we've done.They feel like the old have messed up their future

I have yet to meet a Leave supporter who could give me an adequate explanation as to how the economy could avoid turmoil if we voted out.Many of the Leave voters I have discussed it with based their decision on dislike of immigrants.None seemed to understand the economic risks. THERE IS NO PLAN guys

I have spent the last 3 years leading a firm out of the recession and into prosperity for the benefit of staff and clients-now it will be back to redundancies etc-for what? Defies commonsense. We have decided to follow the wisdom of Nigel Farage and the bloody Sun/Daily Mail.


I have yet to meet a remain voter who gave a valid reason for staying apart from "OMG wim doooooooooooomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

How will us leaving the EU lead to you making people redundant?

If it wasn't for the fact that the ruling and middle classes labelled anyone who had concerns about immigration, the effects it had on employment, housing, education, health care and policing (all valid concerns) as bigots, racists, uneducated etc then maybe this wouldn't have happened.

There has been no discourse at all during the lead up to the referendum, just scaremongering and mud slinging at Boris Johnson, a more intelligent person would have used actual facts instead of smearing the brexiters and labelling anyone who had concerns over the EU as stupid as you have done.

Oh and young people are thick as fuck, I know I used to be one

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:18 am 
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suiging wrote:
SpaceMonkey wrote:
Rozza wrote:
I got pontoon now someone has played the race card. I was doing a drum roll preparing for someone to play it, good ol' monkeyman.
When all else fails, chuck it in :roll:


You're saying the Leave campaign hasn't been racist? Snark aside.


Three doors down from me is a lovely bloke. Two young daughters who let my son help them take their dog for a walk and a family that will always do anyone a good turn. He's vehemently for out and is blacker than a black thing from blackville. Can't wait to see him at the weekend and tell him he's a racist, it will make his day and give us a good chuckle.


I can see it now, a remake of Love Thy Neighbour, based in Telford, starring ower Gingo :lol:

Any road, wim OUT, but where do we go now...and how? When I put the radio on this morning, I was shocked to hear the result, I thought REMAIN would win, too many people scared of the unknown. But, a rank amateurish set of campaigns, have lead the middle and older generations, to vote OUT, because they're sick of these lying career politicians, and enough is enough, and wim overrun with immigrants.

Obviously that horse has bolted, which is the sad irony of this result, and the whole shambles. However, the young folk said REMAIN, maybe because they're educated enough to realise the folly of leaving The EU, on an economical stance, with their futures at risk. But, these same intelligent and ingenious folk, can be the cornerstone, of a new, vibrant, and bold Britain.

And so, the self serving cun*s, have inadvertently, been brought to book. The bankers, captains of industry, and other wankers, now have to sweat and toil, to ensure we move forward. We have a tinderbox situation. We don't need a general election, they're all shit, we need a government of individuals, who can build new, solid foundations, for the future, a new dawn.

With the right leadership, pair-of-bollocks mandatory, our children could have a bright future. The EU is corrupt. It's ideals are sound, but as per usual, avarice abounds.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:40 am 
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Cameron’s successor, presumably Boris Johnson, will have to decide in October whether or not to invoke Article 50.

And I just dont see Boris doing it, and I can't think of another front line Conservative politician who would do so during this designated period.

Is there room for fresh negotiation within Europe YES, we have to be thankful Central Europe have some of the brightest politicians on the planet.
And behind the scenes I can't see the USA allowing the UK to destabilize Europe the chess game with Russia would lose a key strategic piece.

Its during this period of reflection that the real politicians step forward, ones that think big picture. I hope the UK can find that political heavyweight because so much is at stake.

Political decisions have moved in a new direction with consensus the key word. Without the UK fears of Germany hegemony would increase something Angela Merkel can ill afford.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:57 am 
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Ironfistedmonk wrote:
raggedwolf wrote:
Yep-I work with a lot of young bright,professional people.Every single one of them voted remain as did virtually every one of my peers in the professional community.We are now all worried for our careers.

My teenage kids wanted to be part of Europe -not some kind of fusty image of England in the Fifties. They cant believe what we've done.They feel like the old have messed up their future

I have yet to meet a Leave supporter who could give me an adequate explanation as to how the economy could avoid turmoil if we voted out.Many of the Leave voters I have discussed it with based their decision on dislike of immigrants.None seemed to understand the economic risks. THERE IS NO PLAN guys

I have spent the last 3 years leading a firm out of the recession and into prosperity for the benefit of staff and clients-now it will be back to redundancies etc-for what? Defies commonsense. We have decided to follow the wisdom of Nigel Farage and the bloody Sun/Daily Mail.


I have yet to meet a remain voter who gave a valid reason for staying apart from "OMG wim doooooooooooomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

How will us leaving the EU lead to you making people redundant?

If it wasn't for the fact that the ruling and middle classes labelled anyone who had concerns about immigration, the effects it had on employment, housing, education, health care and policing (all valid concerns) as bigots, racists, uneducated etc then maybe this wouldn't have happened.

There has been no discourse at all during the lead up to the referendum, just scaremongering and mud slinging at Boris Johnson, a more intelligent person would have used actual facts instead of smearing the brexiters and labelling anyone who had concerns over the EU as stupid as you have done.

Oh and young people are thick as fuck, I know I used to be one


:clap2

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:34 am 
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Not going to quote individual posts albeit, it is my opinion that throughout all of the debates neither side gave anything convincing to sway my mind if I had been a complete neutral. Statistics can be manipulated to suit either side of the argument and they're usually two years out of date anyway.

The questions asked of either side were weak too in the most. So, lets try to put some of these issues of the debate to bed.

Immigration:- Nothing will change, why, you have 2-3 Million EU Citizens currently residing in the UK if there is a instant head count or that is an historical fact, I don't know, but there is a thing called the Vienna Convention where such folk (including myself) can claim what is termed ''Acquired Rights'' which basically means that IF you have a long-term (Permanent) Residence Permit and it was issued prior to any BREXIT (Article 50) being invoked then, you can claim the right to remain. This is all relatively new stuff as nobody has yet invoked Article 50 and therefore there are no legal precedences. Add to that the fact that IF you have been resident in the UK for 5 years, been a good boy or girl then, you can apply for a British Citizenship/Passport and the current backlog is getting longer as that is what a good number of folk are applying for. Doesn't mean that it will be granted, but there has to be good reason for refusal.

Add into that equation the fact that there are 2+ Million UK Expatriates living elsewhere within the EU such as France, Spain, Cyprus, Bulgaria to name but a few who are asking the very same questions now, are we likely to be deported? In addition to the Vienna Convention, it is HIGHLY likely that the UK Parliament will make reciprocal deals with the EU to ensure that each Citizen's status is guaranteed to continue as it was before any BREXIT.

It has also been suggested that for the UK to negotiate Trade deals with the EU that they will have to continue to respect the EU ''Freedom of Movement'' Directive. As I have spouted about on numerous occasions, the UK also has a quota system for allowing in Immigrants from outside of the EU and nothing will change there either. So, where is there any sign whatsoever of the claims of ''Controlling our own Borders''. The French are now talking about removing their 1000 Special Riot Police from the Calais Jungle and sending the UK Border Agency back to the English side of the border which means that the Asylum Seekers will get through in greater numbers and as soon as they touch down on UK soil, we have to accept them and process them.

The immigration debate was and the ''better control of our Borders'' is a total myth and should have been scored out of the debates.

Each and every other part of the agenda could be attacked and ripped to shreds in the same manner if I had the time, the energy and was of the belief that others would listen. This is EU is not the EU we need, but it could've been shaped far better with us in it than with us out of it and having next to no say in the matters that count.

I saw this result coming months ago as I could see the tide of ''Little Britain, We Won Two World Wars and Can Be Great Again'' sheep flocking together on social media; that fookin Barge sailed moons ago and is never likely to return.

It is not for me to say who should and who should not be allowed to vote, but Monk has a point when the Yute arrive in Sunny Beach to get high, pissed and cause trouble, they don't even know where Bulgaria is located on a map. I bet most of them think that Brussels is where their sprouts come from for a Sunday dinner - I say no more.

Despair looms.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:43 am 
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Ironfistedmonk wrote:

I have yet to meet a remain voter who gave a valid reason for staying apart from "OMG wim doooooooooooomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

How will us leaving the EU lead to you making people redundant?

If it wasn't for the fact that the ruling and middle classes labelled anyone who had concerns about immigration, the effects it had on employment, housing, education, health care and policing (all valid concerns) as bigots, racists, uneducated etc then maybe this wouldn't have happened.

There has been no discourse at all during the lead up to the referendum, just scaremongering and mud slinging at Boris Johnson, a more intelligent person would have used actual facts instead of smearing the brexiters and labelling anyone who had concerns over the EU as stupid as you have done.

Oh and young people are thick as fuck, I know I used to be one


Rozza might have agreed with summat else you've written in the past, if so, I've obviously missed it. :wink:

Anyhow, I can't speak for the folk you've recently met in Wolvo since the campaign started...or anywhere else for that matter, but there were plenty of good reasons for staying in which have been spelt out in detail (despite the costs of remaining which I admit are not insubstantial) and those matters will start becoming apparent very soon and will continue to become apparent for some time. My main hope now the referendum is over is that the supposed benefits of coming out (which I haven't heard about in any concrete detail during the campaign) will outweigh those advantages we'll lose by staying in. The EU isn't going to roll over and let us tickle their tummies. Perhaps it'll be a good thing if there's a domino effect of referenda across Europe and then we'll be in a stronger position by having started the ball rolling and coming out first. Who knows? Only time will tell - I'm aligned with Moscow about the pros and cons about the matter...neither side convinced me and my reaction was a gut feeling to stay in as I had no faith in the "Leavers". It's over and we'll see what happens. I'm crossing my fingers.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:10 am 
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Who 'runs' the EU?

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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:36 am 
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raggedwolf wrote:
When we now what the actual exit deal actually is should we not have another vote to approve that actual deal- as opposed to the vague aspiration and hot air that Leave put forward without having a clue really


As an alternate viewpoint you could turn it round and say that we knew what the in deal was....and didnt want it.

As for the question
No I don't think thats a workable idea as thats the politicians job - you cant rule by proxy on everything.

The complexity on this issue alone meant not enough valid information was offered or available can you imagine trying to wade through the information required to make an informed decision on more detailed issues.

Also as people are complaining about this result imagine the turmoil if the vote didnt turn out as hoped.


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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:40 am 
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Rozza wrote:
Ironfistedmonk wrote:
raggedwolf wrote:
Yep-I work with a lot of young bright,professional people.Every single one of them voted remain as did virtually every one of my peers in the professional community.We are now all worried for our careers.

My teenage kids wanted to be part of Europe -not some kind of fusty image of England in the Fifties. They cant believe what we've done.They feel like the old have messed up their future

I have yet to meet a Leave supporter who could give me an adequate explanation as to how the economy could avoid turmoil if we voted out.Many of the Leave voters I have discussed it with based their decision on dislike of immigrants.None seemed to understand the economic risks. THERE IS NO PLAN guys

I have spent the last 3 years leading a firm out of the recession and into prosperity for the benefit of staff and clients-now it will be back to redundancies etc-for what? Defies commonsense. We have decided to follow the wisdom of Nigel Farage and the bloody Sun/Daily Mail.


I have yet to meet a remain voter who gave a valid reason for staying apart from "OMG wim doooooooooooomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

How will us leaving the EU lead to you making people redundant?

If it wasn't for the fact that the ruling and middle classes labelled anyone who had concerns about immigration, the effects it had on employment, housing, education, health care and policing (all valid concerns) as bigots, racists, uneducated etc then maybe this wouldn't have happened.

There has been no discourse at all during the lead up to the referendum, just scaremongering and mud slinging at Boris Johnson, a more intelligent person would have used actual facts instead of smearing the brexiters and labelling anyone who had concerns over the EU as stupid as you have done.

Oh and young people are thick as fuck, I know I used to be one


:clap2



now THIS is a shock !!


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