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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:10 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
kenbarlowsslippers wrote:
KK you are missing a massive point in all of this,Labour and Cons were together on this!!Also only a quarter of MPs were in favour of leave so how does parliament represent the people?don't blame the cons fuck them all off.


I aint missing the point this coming week we will fuck off the Tories from within our party.

We shouldn't accept this type of scum within society let alone in politics.

The Conservative party was scum, is scum and will always be scum, lets clarify that.


KK, you live in a dream world about the Labour Party. It's clear that the majority of the country will never ever support Corbyn or anyone like him so Labour will NEVER EVER get elected unless it has a broader appeal. If you then advocate militant action/revolution/socialist dictatorship as a solution then I feel sorry for you.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:35 am 
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SELWolf wrote:
kenbarlowsslippers wrote:
It is a bit like what i said in an earlier post about expert opinions,you believe and use them when it suits your own agenda.As the leave doesn't suit,well we know what will happen.


I haven't a clue what will happen, mate, and I'm sure that there's uncertainty right across the business world which will fundamentally affect the economy.


Sorry sel my post reads not as meant.
I was on about people in general especially politicians not you personally and that as the vote didn't suit they will somehow change the outcome.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:53 am 
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kenbarlowsslippers wrote:
SELWolf wrote:
kenbarlowsslippers wrote:
It is a bit like what i said in an earlier post about expert opinions,you believe and use them when it suits your own agenda.As the leave doesn't suit,well we know what will happen.


I haven't a clue what will happen, mate, and I'm sure that there's uncertainty right across the business world which will fundamentally affect the economy.


Sorry sel my post reads not as meant.
I was on about people in general especially politicians not you personally and that as the vote didn't suit they will somehow change the outcome.


It's all confusing, mate. It's all very confusing. :wink:

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:50 am 
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The Fat Lady ain't singing yet!!.

Jocks, Possible Spanner in the UK Brexit Works

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:01 pm 
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davejonesears wrote:
CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
HOW AGES VOTED (YouGov poll)
18-24: 75% Remain
25-49: 56% Remain
50-64: 44% Remain
65+ : 39% Remain



yep I saw those percentages ...what would be interesting is what % of those eligible to vote in each of those age groups actually voted.I'd wager it would be almost the inverse of those figures

I assume those statistics are out there somewhere - I just can't be bothered to look :)


18-24: 36% 25-34: 58% 35-44: 72% 45-54: 75% 55-64: 81% 65+: 83%

https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/746747835043954688

Looks like most 18-24 year olds know they have neither the life experience, knowledge or wisdom to make a sensible decision so abstained.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:05 pm 
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THE BIG BAD WOLF wrote:
davejonesears wrote:
CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
HOW AGES VOTED (YouGov poll)
18-24: 75% Remain
25-49: 56% Remain
50-64: 44% Remain
65+ : 39% Remain



yep I saw those percentages ...what would be interesting is what % of those eligible to vote in each of those age groups actually voted.I'd wager it would be almost the inverse of those figures

I assume those statistics are out there somewhere - I just can't be bothered to look :)


18-24: 36% 25-34: 58% 35-44: 72% 45-54: 75% 55-64: 81% 65+: 83%

https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/746747835043954688

Looks like most 18-24 year olds know they have neither the life experience, knowledge or wisdom to make a sensible decision so abstained.


Or, the weather was shite so lets stay home with a few cans and watch TV. :wink:

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:17 pm 
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This is absolutely hilarious.

The creator of the petition for a 2nd referendum is actually a right-wing Leave campaigner.

He made the petition when it looked like Remain would win by only a few points. Now that Leave won by a few he's backtracking horribly. The facebook post he made is just the best :lol: :lol:

https://www.facebook.com/Oliver.Healey. ... 5492720794


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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:21 pm 
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SpaceMonkey wrote:
This is absolutely hilarious.

The creator of the petition for a 2nd referendum is actually a right-wing Leave campaigner.

He made the petition when it looked like Remain would win by only a few points. Now that Leave won by a few he's backtracking horribly. The facebook post he made is just the best :lol: :lol:

https://www.facebook.com/Oliver.Healey. ... 5492720794



now that IS funny -what an idiot :)

not that it makes a difference anyway -we are not run by pettiions - not just yet - however maybe in the new world we could be


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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:24 pm 
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THE BIG BAD WOLF wrote:
davejonesears wrote:
CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
HOW AGES VOTED (YouGov poll)
18-24: 75% Remain
25-49: 56% Remain
50-64: 44% Remain
65+ : 39% Remain



yep I saw those percentages ...what would be interesting is what % of those eligible to vote in each of those age groups actually voted.I'd wager it would be almost the inverse of those figures

I assume those statistics are out there somewhere - I just can't be bothered to look :)


18-24: 36% 25-34: 58% 35-44: 72% 45-54: 75% 55-64: 81% 65+: 83%

https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/746747835043954688

Looks like most 18-24 year olds know they have neither the life experience, knowledge or wisdom to make a sensible decision so abstained.


cheers that demograph pretty much shows what I suspected...again they had a choice they didnt use it...thats it now Im afraid.

but it does show again that the politicians for both sides of the arguement didnt provide the right information for the right audiences.


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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:30 pm 
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Moscow Wolf wrote:
The Fat Lady ain't singing yet!!.

Jocks, Possible Spanner in the UK Brexit Works


I put this on the OTHER EU thread - my its getting confusing on here as well now...

When does a referendum not count - when your a jingoistic power hungry politican - and a Jock -of course.

well give them another vote - next week - dont let em see how it pans out for 2 years first - i am sick of listening to her already.

They had a vote - to stop in the UK - they decided to stay-and now the UK had another vote and the UK -that they previously deided to remain a part of - has decided to leave the EU.

Quite simple realy.

Now IF they have another vote the elligibility of the voters would have to be different of course.

Europeans living there shouldnt for example have a vote this time - and scottish people working abroad (inc. england) should...and not all those that voted to remain in the EU will necessarily vote to come out of the UK.

Im sure they have a massive team of statisticians working out whats going to give em the best chance of winning- a bit like Cameron did.....


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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:35 pm 
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There was a fear (so Farago said) that the late surge of applications to vote were the young who were going to vote to stay in (and he wanted a re-run before the result was known) but it seems they were folk who were going to vote to leave. :?

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:45 pm 
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davejonesears wrote:
Moscow Wolf wrote:
The Fat Lady ain't singing yet!!.

Jocks, Possible Spanner in the UK Brexit Works


I put this on the OTHER EU thread - my its getting confusing on here as well now...

When does a referendum not count - when your a jingoistic power hungry politican - and a Jock -of course.

well give them another vote - next week - dont let em see how it pans out for 2 years first - i am sick of listening to her already.

They had a vote - to stop in the UK - they decided to stay-and now the UK had another vote and the UK -that they previously deided to remain a part of - has decided to leave the EU.

Quite simple realy.

Now IF they have another vote the elligibility of the voters would have to be different of course.

Europeans living there shouldnt for example have a vote this time - and scottish people working abroad (inc. england) should...and not all those that voted to remain in the EU will necessarily vote to come out of the UK.

Im sure they have a massive team of statisticians working out whats going to give em the best chance of winning- a bit like Cameron did.....


Scotland had over a 60% vote to remain within the EU which is a far better percentage overall than the Leave campaign's vote percentage win.

They don't need to have any Referendum for now as it seems that they have found the ''loophole'' where they can simply VETO the Brexit and stop it happening, but I am yet to understand how they can do that legally as the news is still hot off the press, but she must have a good idea otherwise she wouldn't have said it.

Now, me loving a good conspiracy theory, I am beginning to wonder if this was all orchestrated with the end result being that we remain, but with far better terms than Cameron got. On the other-side of the coin, perhaps I'm dreaming or my Tin Foil Hat slipped off. :roll:

It would be good for me personally if Scotland breaks away from the UK and remains in the EU as it means I could go live there with my Russian Wife something that I cannot do in England now or most probably in the future upon an English Brexit. :lol:

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:44 pm 
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Moscow Wolf wrote:
davejonesears wrote:
Moscow Wolf wrote:
The Fat Lady ain't singing yet!!.

Jocks, Possible Spanner in the UK Brexit Works


I put this on the OTHER EU thread - my its getting confusing on here as well now...

When does a referendum not count - when your a jingoistic power hungry politican - and a Jock -of course.

well give them another vote - next week - dont let em see how it pans out for 2 years first - i am sick of listening to her already.

They had a vote - to stop in the UK - they decided to stay-and now the UK had another vote and the UK -that they previously deided to remain a part of - has decided to leave the EU.

Quite simple realy.

Now IF they have another vote the elligibility of the voters would have to be different of course.

Europeans living there shouldnt for example have a vote this time - and scottish people working abroad (inc. england) should...and not all those that voted to remain in the EU will necessarily vote to come out of the UK.

Im sure they have a massive team of statisticians working out whats going to give em the best chance of winning- a bit like Cameron did.....


Scotland had over a 60% vote to remain within the EU which is a far better percentage overall than the Leave campaign's vote percentage win.

They don't need to have any Referendum for now as it seems that they have found the ''loophole'' where they can simply VETO the Brexit and stop it happening, but I am yet to understand how they can do that legally as the news is still hot off the press, but she must have a good idea otherwise she wouldn't have said it.

Now, me loving a good conspiracy theory, I am beginning to wonder if this was all orchestrated with the end result being that we remain, but with far better terms than Cameron got. On the other-side of the coin, perhaps I'm dreaming or my Tin Foil Hat slipped off. :roll:

It would be good for me personally if Scotland breaks away from the UK and remains in the EU as it means I could go live there with my Russian Wife something that I cannot do in England now or most probably in the future upon an English Brexit. :lol:


As I said - let them have the vote at least that way I wouldn't have to listen to her whinging either way afterwards.


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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:02 pm 
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davejonesears wrote:

As I said - let them have the vote at least that way I wouldn't have to listen to her whinging either way afterwards.


I won't fall out with anyone about her as Scotland's business is their own. I do think, however, that she's a very skillful politician who has an ability to clearly communicate her ideas, is charismatic and who doesn't buckle under pressure. I might not agree with everything that she says but I think she has a lot of credibility and that's why Scotland has rallied to her which they didn't in sufficient numbers to Salmond.

I really wish we had politicians in England on both sides of the divide with her calibre to create a strong
government with a strong opposition.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:57 pm 
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What seems to be crucial to me about the alleged possible answers to our prospective new trading relationships is that the southern hemisphere (and other places) will be a source of trade which has been limited to us during our EC membership. However, hasn't anyone with a bit of gumption considered that if we start changing the balance of trading equations with new partners, then the nations they up to now traded with will have their noses put out of joint? As the equations change with us as the variable shoving our elbows in to muscle our way into a complex set of deals, the whole balance of the economic structure which we'll be entering will be thrown into disarray.

How to make friends and enemies at the same time, methinks.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:32 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
What seems to be crucial to me about the alleged possible answers to our prospective new trading relationships is that the southern hemisphere (and other places) will be a source of trade which has been limited to us during our EC membership. However, hasn't anyone with a bit of gumption considered that if we start changing the balance of trading equations with new partners, then the nations they up to now traded with will have their noses put out of joint? As the equations change with us as the variable shoving our elbows in to muscle our way into a complex set of deals, the whole balance of the economic structure which we'll be entering will be thrown into disarray.

How to make friends and enemies at the same time, methinks.


The UK created an empire, most of those nations are emerging trading nations, most of those nations speak English.
Enormous advantage over other European nations.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:13 pm 
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From an economics perspective,the referendum was like a man considering a lifechanging operation putting it to the vote in his local pub with people who 1.didnt understand the question or 2. couldnt be bothered to think about side effects or 3.were prejudiced against blood transfusions or doctors ,etc in the first place ,ending up making the decision for him.

Mate of mine had his haircut on Friday.The hairdresser proudly told him everyone in the salon had voted out. When he asked her about the effect on the economy she replied "what is the economy".She subsequently asked him if the Germans were in the EU?

There is still no plan from Leave as to how we sort out the immediate economic crisis-no clue whatsoever.

Finally,for those on here who voted out to stick it to posh boy Cameron and the Evil tories ,you presumably understood and accepted that the inevitable collapse in the pound meant less money for the NHS in real terms and more austerity and more benefit cuts.That is what you voted for -I hope you are happy... (I should say I'm a life long left voter cos I think it matters to look after the weaker members of society -who will without doubt pay the price for this vote).


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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:23 pm 
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raggedwolf wrote:
From an economics perspective,the referendum was like a man considering a lifechanging operation putting it to the vote in his local pub with people who 1.didnt understand the question or 2. couldnt be bothered to think about side effects or 3.were prejudiced against blood transfusions or doctors ,etc in the first place ,ending up making the decision for him.

Mate of mine had his haircut on Friday.The hairdresser proudly told him everyone in the salon had voted out. When he asked her about the effect on the economy she replied "what is the economy".She subsequently asked him if the Germans were in the EU?

There is still no plan from Leave as to how we sort out the immediate economic crisis-no clue whatsoever.

Finally,for those on here who voted out to stick it to posh boy Cameron and the Evil tories ,you presumably understood and accepted that the inevitable collapse in the pound meant less money for the NHS in real terms and more austerity and more benefit cuts.That is what you voted for -I hope you are happy... (I should say I'm a life long left voter cos I think it matters to look after the weaker members of society -who will without doubt pay the price for this vote).


You've been given a bit of a hard time on here about this subject and I respect your tenacity in continuing. In my opinion, what you've just written is m,ore or less spot on. :smt023

My daughter wore a Remain badge and on the tube in London a guy asked her what it was all about. He'd heard that there was a referendum about Europe but hadn't a clue what it was really about. :shock:

It's not surprising that 28% didn't vote but my concern is that those who did may well have not known why they were voting...regardless of which way they swung - so to speak...but that's always the same in elections, I guess.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:33 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
raggedwolf wrote:
From an economics perspective,the referendum was like a man considering a lifechanging operation putting it to the vote in his local pub with people who 1.didnt understand the question or 2. couldnt be bothered to think about side effects or 3.were prejudiced against blood transfusions or doctors ,etc in the first place ,ending up making the decision for him.

Mate of mine had his haircut on Friday.The hairdresser proudly told him everyone in the salon had voted out. When he asked her about the effect on the economy she replied "what is the economy".She subsequently asked him if the Germans were in the EU?

There is still no plan from Leave as to how we sort out the immediate economic crisis-no clue whatsoever.

Finally,for those on here who voted out to stick it to posh boy Cameron and the Evil tories ,you presumably understood and accepted that the inevitable collapse in the pound meant less money for the NHS in real terms and more austerity and more benefit cuts.That is what you voted for -I hope you are happy... (I should say I'm a life long left voter cos I think it matters to look after the weaker members of society -who will without doubt pay the price for this vote).


You've been given a bit of a hard time on here about this subject and I respect your tenacity in continuing. In my opinion, what you've just written is m,ore or less spot on. :smt023

My daughter wore a Remain badge and on the tube in London a guy asked her what it was all about. He'd heard that there was a referendum about Europe but hadn't a clue what it was really about. :shock:

It's not surprising that 28% didn't vote but my concern is that those who did may well have not known why they were voting...regardless of which way they swung - so to speak...but that's always the same in elections, I guess.


Sel what is there about this:

"This is a victory for the Stupid ,the Old and The Racist over the intelligent the young and the openminded."

that doesn't deserve the poster to be given a hard time?

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:37 pm 
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kenbarlowsslippers wrote:

Sel what is there about this:

"This is a victory for the Stupid ,the Old and The Racist over the intelligent the young and the openminded."

that doesn't deserve the poster to be given a hard time?


I haven't said that I agree with his other posts but full credit to him for coming back and saying summat along the lines of summat that I'd agree with. That's being circumspect and rational, I hope. :wink:

Now, Ken, do you find this circumspect and rational?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_aud ... s/36633371

Just askin'? :wink:

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:50 pm 
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raggedwolf wrote:
Mate of mine had his haircut on Friday.The hairdresser proudly told him everyone in the salon had voted out. When he asked her


He asked her?

Nothing more needs to be said.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:52 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
kenbarlowsslippers wrote:

Sel what is there about this:

"This is a victory for the Stupid ,the Old and The Racist over the intelligent the young and the openminded."

that doesn't deserve the poster to be given a hard time?


I haven't said that I agree with his other posts but full credit to him for coming back and saying summat along the lines of summat that I'd agree with. That's being circumspect and rational, I hope. :wink:

Now, Ken, do you find this circumspect and rational?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_aud ... s/36633371

Just askin'? :wink:


I did my homework and i hope i covered the fact that it had to go through parliament and the problems it would cause.I even quoted Cameron's dad who said basically the exit wouldn't happen even if we voted out..
I hoped people would vote out because only then could the public see there was never a choice when it never happened.The Remain camp shouldn't rejoice if this happens,i hope that is not lost on you.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:55 pm 
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Rozza wrote:
raggedwolf wrote:
Mate of mine had his haircut on Friday.The hairdresser proudly told him everyone in the salon had voted out. When he asked her


He asked her?

Nothing more needs to be said.


It was everyone in the salon had "come out" the deaf ****.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:59 pm 
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Rozza wrote:
raggedwolf wrote:
Mate of mine had his haircut on Friday.The hairdresser proudly told him everyone in the salon had voted out. When he asked her


He asked her?

Nothing more needs to be said.


Oh dear. :roll: I saw a feller trying to park his small car in a space big enough for two sedans as I walked up the road to get the paper this morning. He mounted the kerb and drove 1/3 of the way onto it and also in the process he must have taken 1mm (at least) off his clutch plate. Feller drivers, eh? :roll:

As for coppers...and all that.

Come on Rozza, this is the 21st century.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:01 pm 
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kenbarlowsslippers wrote:
SELWolf wrote:
kenbarlowsslippers wrote:

Sel what is there about this:

"This is a victory for the Stupid ,the Old and The Racist over the intelligent the young and the openminded."

that doesn't deserve the poster to be given a hard time?


I haven't said that I agree with his other posts but full credit to him for coming back and saying summat along the lines of summat that I'd agree with. That's being circumspect and rational, I hope. :wink:

Now, Ken, do you find this circumspect and rational?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_aud ... s/36633371

Just askin'? :wink:


I did my homework and i hope i covered the fact that it had to go through parliament and the problems it would cause.I even quoted Cameron's dad who said basically the exit wouldn't happen even if we voted out..
I hoped people would vote out because only then could the public see there was never a choice when it never happened.The Remain camp shouldn't rejoice if this happens,i hope that is not lost on you.


As I said earlier today, it's one Hell of a confusing mess. The back stabbing has only just started.

It's becoming ominously clear that the public have been lead down the garden path and it really does show what a shite load of politicians of every hue we have in charge of the country.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:11 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
As I said earlier today, it's one Hell of a confusing mess. The back stabbing has only just started.

It's becoming ominously clear that the public have been lead down the garden path and it really does show what a shite load of politicians of every hue we have in charge of the country.


As I said in my first post, both sides of the debate were at it. I watched some of those debates and laughed to myself about the pantomime they became. I really took little notice of them.

On the Andrew Marr show this morning he said, "leaving the EU will probably be neither as good as you hoped, or as bad as you feared." In the event that we do actually withdraw, that's probably the most accurate statement I've heard which both exposes the tripe served up by the politicians and puts into perspective what we were all actually voting for.

As for branding leavers stupid and/or racist for voting out, that's akin to labelling remainers traitors or elitists for voting in. The majority of people I know have voted out, they are a mix of people, but include highly educated engineers with years of experience in the british construction industry and also a 25 year old privately educated farmers daughter now a civil/structural engineer well on her way to chartership. I myself manage a small drawing office at a steel construction company and I continue to employ a Romanian fella and a Chinese lad. So if we as a collective are stupid racists, I beg to differ. I genuinely don't know many people who voted to stay in other than my Dad who's in his late 70's and doesn't really know why, other than he doesn't like change.
Anyone making these sweeping generalisations either way is worthy of zero respect and I note that neither Moscow or yourself have stooped to those gutter dwelling levels, and you have my full respect for that.
The guy who has seen fit to sling such mud, is frankly a disgrace and should worry not about having to make redundancies, as if I was one of his employees and he spouted such arrogant, ill informed nonsense, I would not hesitate to seek employment elsewhere.

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Last edited by lankywolf on Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:26 pm 
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Cheers, Lanky. :mrgreen:

I've really enjoyed this debate and also following the day's news as it's unfolded. Actually writing ideas down also helps to clarify thoughts about it more than the spoken word as you have more time to give a greater considered comment which crystallises your thoughts and taking into account what some have written above (especially Ken and Moscow and not forgetting Dave :wink: ) I feel I've a greater grasp about it all now than I did when the day began.

Edit

There have been ten resignations from the Shadow Cabinet plus the Benn sacking and a further resignation by Karl Turner the Shadow Attorney General who attends Shadow Cabinet meetings.

Interesting days ahead.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:49 pm 
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I didn't say everyone who voted out was racist- a fair old few were on what people have said to me
The decision has crashed the economy- the Leave campaign has put forward no plan to deal with it in the short or medium term- given the significance of the consequences voting out without knowing the way forward could fairly be said to be pretty unwise don't you think
Older people voted out - younger people voted in.
Which bit of the above makes me a disgrace?
My business has provided good well paid secure jobsin a workplace with a high level of employee satisfaction for over 20 years. I can't control market demand and a major change to the economy without a thought through plan to deal with it puts the firm and its people their livelihood and homes at risk- why would I not feel angry about it in the absence of any clear benefit - how is that a disgrace ?
The U.K. Is a far more prosperous tolerant and successful society than it was in 1973 and the Eu has contributed to that. We have scrapped without any idea of what comes next. Tell me why that isn't capable of being described as stupid Lankywolf.


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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:54 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
Cheers, Lanky. :mrgreen:

I've really enjoyed this debate and also following the day's news as it's unfolded. Actually writing ideas down also helps to clarify thoughts about it more than the spoken word as you have more time to give a greater considered comment which crystallises your thoughts and taking into account what some have written above (especially Ken and Moscow and not forgetting Dave :wink: ) I feel I've a greater grasp about it all now than I did when the day began.

Edit

There have been ten resignations from the Shadow Cabinet plus the Benn sacking and a further resignation by Karl Turner the Shadow Attorney General who attends Shadow Cabinet meetings.

Interesting days ahead.

Well there has been a worry in recent times that the population has become disengaged with politics. At least this bloodbath has gone some way to resolving that.

It's better than Corrie, all this!

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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:43 am 
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raggedwolf wrote:
I didn't say everyone who voted out was racist- a fair old few were on what people have said to me
The decision has crashed the economy- the Leave campaign has put forward no plan to deal with it in the short or medium term- given the significance of the consequences voting out without knowing the way forward could fairly be said to be pretty unwise don't you think
Older people voted out - younger people voted in.
Which bit of the above makes me a disgrace?
My business has provided good well paid secure jobsin a workplace with a high level of employee satisfaction for over 20 years. I can't control market demand and a major change to the economy without a thought through plan to deal with it puts the firm and its people their livelihood and homes at risk- why would I not feel angry about it in the absence of any clear benefit - how is that a disgrace ?
The U.K. Is a far more prosperous tolerant and successful society than it was in 1973 and the Eu has contributed to that. We have scrapped without any idea of what comes next. Tell me why that isn't capable of being described as stupid Lankywolf.

The language used in your first post was inflammatory, disrespectful and not constructive in any way. In particular the insinuation that you are somehow intellectually superior to leave voters. Do you not think that a little condescending and yes, a pretty disgraceful way to conduct yourself in a civilised debate?...Perhaps you could share what people have said to you for you to reach the conclusion that a 'fair old few' leave voters are racists. And what makes you believe that certain remain voters do not hold prejudices (to the working class for instance)? Of course we all know that the older generation voted in favour of leave, and you'll notice I haven't challenged that. However, they are perfectly entitled to vote how they wish and their opinion should be respected. After all, some of their parents fought to ensure we have a choice at all. The young vote didn't turn out, which would lead me to believe they really don't care that much. So perhaps you could say it's a victory for the people who bothered to vote.

Let's remember who offered this referendum in the first place... A remainer.
Who generally occupies the most senior positions in government?.. Remainers. And unless I've missed something they are still in power and are taking decisions in the immediate aftermath of the vote. The first of which was 'I'm off, but not just yet'

What plan were you expecting the leave campaign to implement in the immediate aftermath when you know that at the moment they hold no power with which to implement a plan? If you are frustrated at the lack of an immediate plan, surely you should direct your criticism towards the remain politicians who are still in power. If they failed to prepare for the possibility of one of the results they offered in a referendum , then that is a pretty stupid approach to governing a country.

I don't think there are many leavers who who weren't expecting a short term cost for what could be a long term gain. Are you suggesting there were no risks to remaining also, with potential bail outs on the horizon? Let's not forget that they've got form with their failed Euro currency.

There are two sides to this debate and you should at least acknowledge that there are some credible arguments on the leave side. I certainly accept that the short term pain that may ensue was a credible argument to remain, but I think worth the risk for a long term gain. It's a matter of judgement for the individual voter. To label them stupid because their situation may cause them to judge things differently to you is poor form.

Lastly the whole world is a very different place now than in 1973. I wasn't even born then. There are only 28 countries in the EU and many of the other 200 or so countries around the world enjoy many of the things the EU takes credit for implementing here. Let's be realistic many of those things would have happened anyway.

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