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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:44 am 
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But which Government here over the last 33 years has known all the legalese clauses and rules etc when nobody ever envisaged us leaving the EU in the foreseeable future? The referendum was an earthquake of gigantic proportions that probably requires a couple of years of lawyers poring over the complete details across thousands of documents. Easier said than done, especially when a timeframe is involved.

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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:55 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
You would expect ALL members of the EU to understand all the rules, all the standards, all the reasons how the EU create an even playing field.

Understanding the details which underpin the whole framework.


The UK government shouldn't be following emotive narrative it should be guided by process and detail.


Do you mean like Labour does ? The party who one half say one thing, the other something completely different. They call for the country to let them take over the negotiations. They claim they will not support a no-deal, but have six points any deal must have, which leave six key benefits exactly the same as membership.

Excuse me ? The EU have said no cherry picking. The EU dismiss any suggestions put forward by May without coming up with counter-proposals, due to their sheer arrogance. Please explain how a party that says it will vote down ANY Conservative deal, which will lead to no-deal a state they claim to be against, thinks that it can get a deal in a matter of months, with it's six must have's, clearly refused already by the EU ? Playing 70's politics at schoolboy level with the future of the Nation, doesn't come close. No restrictions on Unions. Taking back at the cost of borrowed billions services which when run at a national level were appalling, Schools run by teachers, jeered on by the communist rabble, spouting that when in power no child would ever vote Conservative again as they would be "taught properly" made me feel positively ill. The Soviets and Venezualans must be proud.

Nationalisation, Education, and without doubt Brexit, all pie in the sky rubbish with no substance and nothing but misery and bankruptcy for a nation. The sight of the multi-hair coloured granny/tranny brigade cheering on such lunacy would be hilarious if it wasn't true.

I will say it again. Down load "Hatred" on Sky. A disturbing but must watch fill about Ukrainian/ Polish /Jewish genocide in WW2. Watch it and see a worst case scenario about what happens when dictators filled with hate take over communities.

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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:15 am 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
But which Government here over the last 33 years has known all the legalese clauses and rules etc when nobody ever envisaged us leaving the EU in the foreseeable future? The referendum was an earthquake of gigantic proportions that probably requires a couple of years of lawyers poring over the complete details across thousands of documents. Easier said than done, especially when a timeframe is involved.



All regulations, standards, process and so on all entwined during the last half century.


Your not going to unravel that in a couple of years.



All these nations in the world that the UK wishes to deal with ALREADY deal with the EU.

All on agreed standards and regulations backed up by International law.

How long before the UK can develop trade agreements?


Now if the UK government continues to be aggressive the EU can easily sway those same nations behind them

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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:55 am 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
But which Government here over the last 33 years has known all the legalese clauses and rules etc when nobody ever envisaged us leaving the EU in the foreseeable future? The referendum was an earthquake of gigantic proportions that probably requires a couple of years of lawyers poring over the complete details across thousands of documents. Easier said than done, especially when a timeframe is involved.


Any UK government is supported by an absolute army of (often permanent) civil servants who are paid taxpayers' money to provide expertise in their fields to whoever governs. The UK will have employed European legal experts for decades given the importance of European law in daily life.

The experts are surely present. Indeed, the UK has shaped the majority of the construct of the EU and its legislation over the decades.

Sadly, it seems what expertise exists is being wilfully ignored by politicians, but then as Leave campaigners stated "people are sick of experts" so it is logical that the negotiation stage has continued to be based on raw emotion rather than substance and fact.

The present timeframe is in any case that of Theresa May's making. Triggering Article 50 with minimal preparation and then spending two years dodging the hard issue of what does the UK actually want to achieve was her own decision which has greatly limited the available time to conclude everything. Appointing one of the most laziest politicians of all to oversee the process was the first misstep.

The timing of triggering Article 50 had nothing to do with a preparedness to get the optimal deal for the whole country and everything to do with trying (and spectacularly failing) to swing a snap election for her party.

The fact that no-deal is even possible is a sad testimony to the UK's botched approach to negotiation.

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:09 am 
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suiging wrote:
Embers wrote:
Do I need to sell the house and take the family to live in a caravan in Wales? One of the lads got a new static for £15K near Machynlleth.


If Corbyn gets in....yes


The caravan won't be yours for long. Corbyn would take it off you to house some of the millions of economic migrations he would allow in to our island. Plus, you wouldn't get any compensation for your loss.

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:56 am 
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shropswolf wrote:
gladbachwolf wrote:
But which Government here over the last 33 years has known all the legalese clauses and rules etc when nobody ever envisaged us leaving the EU in the foreseeable future? The referendum was an earthquake of gigantic proportions that probably requires a couple of years of lawyers poring over the complete details across thousands of documents. Easier said than done, especially when a timeframe is involved.


Any UK government is supported by an absolute army of (often permanent) civil servants who are paid taxpayers' money to provide expertise in their fields to whoever governs. The UK will have employed European legal experts for decades given the importance of European law in daily life.

The experts are surely present.
Indeed, the UK has shaped the majority of the construct of the EU and its legislation over the decades.

Sadly, it seems what expertise exists is being wilfully ignored by politicians, but then as Leave campaigners stated "people are sick of experts" so it is logical that the negotiation stage has continued to be based on raw emotion rather than substance and fact.

The present timeframe is in any case that of Theresa May's making. Triggering Article 50 with minimal preparation and then spending two years dodging the hard issue of what does the UK actually want to achieve was her own decision which has greatly limited the available time to conclude everything. Appointing one of the most laziest politicians of all to oversee the process was the first misstep.

The timing of triggering Article 50 had nothing to do with a preparedness to get the optimal deal for the whole country and everything to do with trying (and spectacularly failing) to swing a snap election for her party.

The fact that no-deal is even possible is a sad testimony to the UK's botched approach to negotiation.



Really..?? I am extremely sceptical of that, hence why we have been intermittently digging up various "scare stories etc" about stockpiling food, shortage of medical supplies, disruption to travel at airports and sea ports etc etc. These were not mentioned by anyone amongst the Remain / Project Fear mob and have only very recently become topics of worry and discussion. If we had these experts and an army of highly experienced Civil Servants already in situ for eons, surely we would have been highlighting these recently worrying issues before or just after we decided to leave the EU. It seems like over these last two years, we have been discovering things bit by bit and it has needed to be worked on or at and maybe this has slowed down the exit process somewhat. Agreed, the Tory Govt / Mrs May have made a dogs dinner of trying to get us out but the huge range of the topics available to assess and judge upon as well as its impacts upon the population is infinite but I ask again: "Who of our Parties / MP's would have made a decent success of what the people wanted them to do.?"

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:16 am 
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Labour's six tests. Obviously designed to make the negotiations fail them. Question - Labour wins a general election. They are negotiating with the EU. The EU will only allow a deal that fail the six tests. What does Labour do now?

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:06 pm 
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Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
Labour's six tests. Obviously designed to make the negotiations fail them. Question - Labour wins a general election. They are negotiating with the EU. The EU will only allow a deal that fail the six tests. What does Labour do now?


Labour know that as long as they're not in power they can sling as much muck and rubbish around as they like as they are not accountable. They simply don't care what happens to this country as long as they can tilt at the windmill in the hope to get their noses in the trough one day. Truly distasteful and despicable.

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:13 pm 
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Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
Labour's six tests. Obviously designed to make the negotiations fail them. Question - Labour wins a general election. They are negotiating with the EU. The EU will only allow a deal that fail the six tests. What does Labour do now?


Not really.

The tests are set against a Tory party who had cabinet members saying the UK would enjoy untold riches should the vote be leave.

Its called accountability.

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:11 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
Labour's six tests. Obviously designed to make the negotiations fail them. Question - Labour wins a general election. They are negotiating with the EU. The EU will only allow a deal that fail the six tests. What does Labour do now?


Not really.

The tests are set against a Tory party who had cabinet members saying the UK would enjoy untold riches should the vote be leave.

Its called accountability.


I almost chocked on that. Corbyn and accountability ? A word that throughout his life he has shown no comprehension of it's meaning.

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:18 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
Labour's six tests. Obviously designed to make the negotiations fail them. Question - Labour wins a general election. They are negotiating with the EU. The EU will only allow a deal that fail the six tests. What does Labour do now?


Not really.

The tests are set against a Tory party who had cabinet members saying the UK would enjoy untold riches should the vote be leave.

Its called accountability.


It's called 'you ain't answered the question'. I am assuming those six points are relevant to whoever is in government. I ask again. What would Labour do? They are LABOUR'S own criteria. Come on. Answer the question.

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Last edited by Deano's Golden Boots on Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:20 pm 
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suiging wrote:
Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
Labour's six tests. Obviously designed to make the negotiations fail them. Question - Labour wins a general election. They are negotiating with the EU. The EU will only allow a deal that fail the six tests. What does Labour do now?


Labour know that as long as they're not in power they can sling as much muck and rubbish around as they like as they are not accountable. They simply don't care what happens to this country as long as they can tilt at the windmill in the hope to get their noses in the trough one day. Truly distasteful and despicable.


Distasteful and despicable. Isn't that the title of their manifesto?

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:42 pm 
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Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
Labour's six tests. Obviously designed to make the negotiations fail them. Question - Labour wins a general election. They are negotiating with the EU. The EU will only allow a deal that fail the six tests. What does Labour do now?


Not really.

The tests are set against a Tory party who had cabinet members saying the UK would enjoy untold riches should the vote be leave.

Its called accountability.


It's called 'you ain't answered the question'. I am assuming those six points are relevant to whoever is in government. I ask again. What would Labour do? They are LABOUR'S own criteria. Come on. Answer the question.


I think Labour will use the Norway model as the base from which to add and subtract.

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:15 pm 
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The Norway model? I may be wrong of course but I can't remember Labour ever intimating the Norway model was in their plans.

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 Post Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
The Norway model? I may be wrong of course but I can't remember Labour ever intimating the Norway model was in their plans.


There are people looked on as future Labour leaders who favour the Norway plus and minus structure.

Plus heavyweights in Conservative and Lib dem.

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 Post Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:35 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
The Norway model? I may be wrong of course but I can't remember Labour ever intimating the Norway model was in their plans.


There are people looked on as future Labour leaders who favour the Norway plus and minus structure.

Plus heavyweights in Conservative and Lib dem.


For certain in May this year your Ayatollah Jeremiah Corbyn stated in a parliamentary meeting with MPs that a Norway-style Brexit CANNOT BE CONSIDERED as it would leave Britain as a rule taker without any influence at the table. The Institute of Economic Affairs also says we should ditch any idea of the Norway option.

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