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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:58 am 
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Should the BBC hold an impartial position or should they be allowed to front the Stay in campaign as is happening in the early weeks.
Should they make it clear " This is a political propaganda machine on behalf of the STAY IN vote. "

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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:05 am 
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I'm not eligible to vote, but if I was then, I would vote IN.

There is NO independent news Knocker, it all just opinions, and publicised suggestions planted in ordinary folk's minds that will sway their vote. No point thinking country, think SELF first of all as those pushing their political agendas are doing.

I have little or no faith that the UK could go it alone, but that is my feeling and opinion. There are lots of things the UK Government could do within the EU framework to stop money being piped out of the country by foreign investors - plus the UK £ is too strong and makes exporting expensive and difficult.

I wouldn't even believe the statistics either as they can be manipulated quite easily. Just have to go with your gut feeling and think SELF. :wink:

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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:35 pm 
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Moscow Wolf wrote:
I'm not eligible to vote, but if I was then, I would vote IN.

There is NO independent news Knocker, it all just opinions, and publicised suggestions planted in ordinary folk's minds that will sway their vote. No point thinking country, think SELF first of all as those pushing their political agendas are doing.

I have little or no faith that the UK could go it alone, but that is my feeling and opinion. There are lots of things the UK Government could do within the EU framework to stop money being piped out of the country by foreign investors - plus the UK £ is too strong and makes exporting expensive and difficult.

I wouldn't even believe the statistics either as they can be manipulated quite easily. Just have to go with your gut feeling and think SELF. :wink:


What he says. :wink:

Those in Kent who once wanted "out" because of the immigration/refugee crisis may now have to re-think their position with it being necessary to build Sangatte-style camps on the coast with no prospect of getting rid of them on "humanitarian grounds". The French will just let them flood across the Channel; "once in, in to stay" will be the case.

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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:59 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
Moscow Wolf wrote:
I'm not eligible to vote, but if I was then, I would vote IN.

There is NO independent news Knocker, it all just opinions, and publicised suggestions planted in ordinary folk's minds that will sway their vote. No point thinking country, think SELF first of all as those pushing their political agendas are doing.

I have little or no faith that the UK could go it alone, but that is my feeling and opinion. There are lots of things the UK Government could do within the EU framework to stop money being piped out of the country by foreign investors - plus the UK £ is too strong and makes exporting expensive and difficult.

I wouldn't even believe the statistics either as they can be manipulated quite easily. Just have to go with your gut feeling and think SELF. :wink:


What he says. :wink:

Those in Kent who once wanted "out" because of the immigration/refugee crisis may now have to re-think their position with it being necessary to build Sangatte-style camps on the coast with no prospect of getting rid of them on "humanitarian grounds". The French will just let them flood across the Channel; "once in, in to stay" will be the case.



says who ? the French ?....Those French that are part of a Europe DESPERATE to keep us in ?

The agreement that controls the influx is between us and France not the EU ...if they decide to break that agreement then I'm sure something would be done.

If you truly believe that will happen then go ahead...but again you are saying immigration is THE ONE AND ONLY thing that will make your mind up then?

so IF it transpired this was a mere idle threat would that make you vote OUT ?

Moscow is right its all about the self ....and that s the pity of it all - I truly no longer want to be dictated to by an increasing federal undemocratic union irrespective or anything else I feel we will be better off in the long term out of it = therefore I vote OUT.


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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:05 pm 
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desiwulf wrote:
Out for me but I fear we will stay in. The media will hold sway.


yep an interesting piece in the Telegraph today ...basically stating the IN campaign controls the media with a campaign headed by Goldman Sachs.
Liam Fox also saying that the OUT campaign cannot compete with the money available to the IN campaign and its the pious rich who are treating this 'peasants revolts' with disdain.

still as they say you can fool some of the people all of the time .don't believe all you read ..peasants


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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:34 pm 
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Leave the EU and see your wages rise, admits the head of the Remain campaign.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... -says.html

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:58 pm 
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so we will be affected by the euro if IN or OUT ...an that even the Germans admt we could negotiate a trade deal to be part of the single market without being in Europe .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-35739780

So whats not to like :)


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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:33 pm 
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THE BIG BAD WOLF wrote:
Leave the EU and see your wages rise, admits the head of the Remain campaign.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... -says.html


Increased wages equals increased costs and will be passed on to the consumer so it is a never ending spiral of inflation.

I thought I would share this LONG story of a Brit that lives in Bulgaria, but returns back to the UK to earn some dough and does menial jobs such as your so called EU Migrant workers do in the UK. £50 per day would go a long way here in Bulgaria, but I now understand from the follow on posts in our Bulgarian Expat Forum that it is nothing in the UK nowadays and most folk wouldn't get out of bed for that sum. :shock:

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Some of you might know that, after twelve or so years in Bulgaria, I'm spending more and more time in the UK. Not through any real desire to be there, but we do have to be about. A close member of my family is not too well and we are just doing what most would do.

Reasons aside, I thought I'd tell of how it's gone and what we've been up to.

We arrived in December, in time for Christmas and it's festivities, new year followed on and, with my 50th birthday in early January, there was little time to put the beer glass down. A good time was had by all.

When the fog cleared reality set in and, viewing the bank balance, we knew we needed to find work or go home (which I didn't really mind having to do). But best at least try.

The papers did not hold much, but that was completely normal for the time of year. So I started phoning around the agencies. Just one seemed positive, are you alright for an early start on Wednesday, the girl asked. Yes. Good. OK. Great. Splendid. Come in and see us. They were decent people, interviewed us for about an hour, gave Toni a pair of boots and said to await a call to confirm our start on Wednesday (the day is Monday). They never called, I have no idea why not, but Toni likes her new boots.

I phone around the agencies again and have luck with another. Again we go in for interview and they want us to start the next day. It's an apple packing factory, the last jobs listed on our CV's say 'apple picking', so 'Great' they must have thought, two people who are good with apples. We'll 'ave 'em.

The next morning we turn up early before eight to start our new micro-career!
First impressions are good, the place is new and the canteen decent; we track down a manager type who gives us a swipe card each and tells us to have a coffee and wait for the others to arrive, when all will become clear.

The others turn up, we are issued with overalls, hats and gloves and queue for entry; this is through a interior floor to ceiling turnstile of inter-meshing bars which will only take one at a time, you swipe your time card and are allowed in; it would be almost impossible to sneak by or for two people to fit through at once. This people processor made me much more nervous than the machinery inside would.

Onto the shop floor. It's one huge space, perhaps over half an acre in total with about ten different packing lines, all doing different things to apples. I walk forward, a bit worried and new, and am quickly nabbed by someone wearing a different hat from me 'You, here.' he says and pulls me to a production line. He is using hand signals as well as words, the assumption is that we have little or no language in common. Being Polish, he is quite right. 'Bag, nine apple' holding up fingers to show quantity and a bag to show the process, 'on belt' pointing at moving belt. That was it, fair 'nuff. I can do that. So I settled into a rhythm of bagging apples from a big bin for the belt. At the end the bags were sealed and boxed. For Tesco's. With about six other people doing the same, we threw the bad apples to one side and just plugged away. We could talk, it was not too loud, not hard work, just a bit boring. But I'm noticing that people are coming and going on the line.

Sure enough, after about two hours I am tapped on the shoulder, 'come', the same pantomime, this time with label rolls and different apples in bags on a different line, 'label on bag, like this' I am told. Good! I am happy, I've had enough of bags of nine and am pleased to do something different. Keeping up with the moving flow of plastic bags is hard and takes some effort, but a lady doing QC is watching me and, when I fall behind, she steps in and helps get me ahead. She is kind, I fall in love a bit, then she goes away. Fifteen minutes break, everyone just stops working and wanders off into the turnstile corridor and to the canteen. We follow. Toni is fine with what she is doing, the same as me but different. Back to work, I just go to my labels and get on with it. Lunch, 45 minutes, back to labels. Later i am moved to another belt to place Bramley apples into cartons of six. I'm a little annoyed as I liked the labels, they took effort to do well and I was getting fastish. Time had passed quickly. But the Bramleys are OK, I am QC'ing them before putting them in their cartons, sometimes they don't quite fit if some are very big and I have to keep up with the flow of cardboard moving before my eyes. A notice is placed on the board high near the corridor with the turnstile. It's four o'clock. The notice says we will work till seven that evening. Some people I can see are annoyed by this. My phone rings, I know I should not answer it, but I see it's the job agency who put me here. I can answer this. 'Are you two alright to work there tomorrow, Sunday and Monday?' the only answer is yes.

We moved out of my brothers spare room into a mobile home on a farm near to where I had been picking apples the previous autumn. No deposit or references needed, the boss does not even know our surnames, but we like each other. (How do you find a flat to rent these days? With deposits, references both bank and personal you need to be nearly perfect.....)

Saturday, all are there, the notice by the turnstile corridor goes up at four. We will finish at five. Sunday, all are there. The notice goes up near the corridor at 11 o'clock for a 12 finish. Monday we are told at four that we will work till eight. I had started to worry about work on Tuesday, so at lunch had phoned the agency. I am told, with endless enthusiasm and positivity, that they don't know and will not know till they get the rota requests in later from the factory management. I phone later and am told we are working.

We worked at this factory for eleven days with one day off, it was a decent place to work with about fifty staff working, perhaps half being temporary agency staff like ourselves. On the eleventh day I, as usual, phoned the agency to find out about the next day. We were told not to come in the next day, maybe the day after. This went on for a week before I gave up calling them. Then they called me to ask, at five pm, that we start a night shift from eight till the six next morning at a factory 25 miles away. Life is just too short to jump like that for minimum wage, so the only answer was no. I haven't heard from them again , and did not expect to after I'd turned work down.

The apple factory was fine, only the management and some temps were English, all the shop floor permanent staff were Polish, Lithuanian, Czech or Romanian. And a decent and smart enough bunch they were, it was they who kept us moving from job to job; I, as did all, averaged three jobs a day till I reached what I quickly realised was the pinnacle of my apple packing career. The bin pouring apparatus. This was a machine attached to the start of the fastest packing lines. Using a trolley jack I had to wheel a bin full of apples into exactly the right position between hydraulic claspers, then, by the picking line, use hydraulic controls to lift and tilt the bin till apples start to pour out into an open funnel and onto the line. Then I had to constantly sip apples onto the line fast enough to keep the packers working at maximum speed, but not so as to overwhelm them, I had to overwhelm the girls towards the end of a bin so I could get the old bin out (by hand, heavy hard work to do very quickly) and trolley a new one into place, lift the new bin up and start pouring again without creating a break in packaging, if I buggered up, the machines would be sealing empty bags. I did three days of this and it was challenging enough to get right to be enjoyable.

When the agency does not call after you have worked hard and well, it's natural to worry that you've done something wrong; but they will not tell you anything apart from 'not today' as their hope is that shortly you will be back in place earning for them. So they keep you hanging on in belief that soon there might be work. I later discovered that the packing factory had lost their Tesco contract, only permanent staff are working there now and only Monday to Friday till 4pm.

Anyway, we went and got another job, another story...

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:31 am 
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Blimey, that's like the Summer holidays, when I was at college, temping for agencies. Christ, what have things come to, if a 50 year old bloke, is doing it; that could be me :shock: Worst thing was, they weren't even packing Pink Ladys.

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:06 am 
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There's no way that the Dutch and Germans will remain in a European Union if the UK leaves, the people of those nations just wont pick up the tab to develop the poorer nations.

If the UK leaves your probably looking at a two tier Europe within a decade with the strong nations building trading alliances with China, Australia, India and the USA.

Germany and France will have factored in how the UK and India can build an easy alliance, they will want to be part of that.

Vote OUT, the Germans are bluffing. And the French are just rubbery muppets who break every rule in the book and expect everyone else to play to their tune.

OUT.

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:21 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
There's no way that the Dutch and Germans will remain in a European Union if the UK leaves, the people of those nations just wont pick up the tab to develop the poorer nations.

If the UK leaves your probably looking at a two tier Europe within a decade with the strong nations building trading alliances with China, Australia, India and the USA.

Germany and France will have factored in how the UK and India can build an easy alliance, they will want to be part of that.

Vote OUT, the Germans are bluffing. And the French are just rubbery muppets who break every rule in the book and expect everyone else to play to their tune.

OUT.


Shame we haven't got a thriving Commonwealth.

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:25 am 
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Embers wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
There's no way that the Dutch and Germans will remain in a European Union if the UK leaves, the people of those nations just wont pick up the tab to develop the poorer nations.

If the UK leaves your probably looking at a two tier Europe within a decade with the strong nations building trading alliances with China, Australia, India and the USA.

Germany and France will have factored in how the UK and India can build an easy alliance, they will want to be part of that.

Vote OUT, the Germans are bluffing. And the French are just rubbery muppets who break every rule in the book and expect everyone else to play to their tune.

OUT.


Shame we haven't got a thriving Commonwealth.


Its still a major advantage because of many reasons the first one obviously language.

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:03 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Embers wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
There's no way that the Dutch and Germans will remain in a European Union if the UK leaves, the people of those nations just wont pick up the tab to develop the poorer nations.

If the UK leaves your probably looking at a two tier Europe within a decade with the strong nations building trading alliances with China, Australia, India and the USA.

Germany and France will have factored in how the UK and India can build an easy alliance, they will want to be part of that.

Vote OUT, the Germans are bluffing. And the French are just rubbery muppets who break every rule in the book and expect everyone else to play to their tune.

OUT.


Shame we haven't got a thriving Commonwealth.


Its still a major advantage because of many reasons the first one obviously language.


Who's brainchild was The EU, and has it achieved it's main aims, after all these years? Whatever happened to Esperanto?!

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:41 pm 
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Embers wrote:
Who's brainchild was The EU, and has it achieved it's main aims, after all these years? Whatever happened to Esperanto?!


I'm no expert on the history of the EU, but its foundations go back as far as the end of the Second World War with Winston Churchill being one of those calling for Unions albeit, it is a history of Treaties and Agreements, the European Common Market, De Gaule vetoing our entry to the latter and so on.

It has achieved its main aim arguably insofar as it was meant to set-up a common market where member states could get favourable trading terms over those outside of it's membership and hence why you have competing Unions from Eurasia and the Americas.

What most folk in the UK seem to be most aggrieved by is this perception that they are ruled from Brussels which is not strictly true, but provides a nice scapegoat for each and every member state's failing. We send elected MP's to the European Parliament, but some if not most are Euro-sceptics such as Farange and, although his speeches are clever, amusing etc. he and his party offer nothing constructive in developing the EU for the better.

Every Member State can have their National Laws as long as they do not conflict with the EU Treaties they have signed up for such as the Freedom of Movement, Trade, Import/Export taxes and tariffs etc. The single currency of the Euro unfortunately doesn't work like the single currency of the United States Dollar where in each and every State, a Burger will cost the same and be valued the same. In the EU it works differently with most saying that the Euro is stronger in Germany than anywhere else within those member states that adopted it. It is too complicated for me to explain or even understand, I just accept it at face value.

Hence with a two or three tier system of values of the Euro and strong currencies such as the British Pound, things are not equal when it comes to exporting, but not so bad for importing if your currency is strong. Personally, I think that the EU expanded too quickly after the breakup of the Soviet Bloc and took on more than it could chew and still wants to add poor economic countries Moldova and Ukraine if given the chance to the already poor countries of Bulgaria and Romania etc. However, some countries as you will know, Ireland, Spain, Portugal and Greece have already failed or almost failed inside of the EU with other countries on the brink.

Who is bailing them out, well the EU and so called International Monetary Funds backed by the USA who themselves are in hock up to their ears from the Chinese, but where is that money coming from and who is it paid back to - eventually?

Even if the UK left the EU that doesn't mean that the UK wouldn't end up footing some of the bill for bailing out failing European countries, not dissimilar I might suggest, to the failed backing multi-Billion £ projects of bailing out and backing poor African countries as these type of collapses lead to the domino effect and eventually, conflict and war if not civil war. Germany, started out on its path during the 30's in a similar plight of desperation, massive inflation and disharmony.

Out don't necessarily mean OUT completely. So, you'll get better protection of your borders whereby EU Citizens will be more closely scrutinised before being allowed in, but the Horse has already bolted and the UK Nanny State will continue to allow Tom, Dick and Harriet in from the third world non-EU countries and deny folk like myself being allowed to bring my Wife across the UK Border without applying and paying for an expensive visa for a simple holiday visit.

What is to stop anyone coming in that way from simply disappearing as has happened with thousands of illegal immigrants and asylum seekers. Where do all of the folk that have been Human Trafficked and forced into slavery arrive from as Rozza mentioned in another thread - the EU, I doubt it, that might well be their route of entry, but where are your border controls NOW that you (the UK) intends to tighten on a BREXIT. It is a joke and another excuse/scapegoat for a failing UK Government policies.

So, by all means Vote OUT, it doesn't really affect me too much, I already have acquired rights in my EU country of residence and very very unlikely to get kicked out of Bulgaria due to a BREXIT. Anyway, I always have a fall back plan and that is that my Russian Wife can apply for Bulgarian Citizenship and then, I'm more or less bomb proof. As an example, folk I know here from Northern Ireland are applying for Irish passports which they're entitled to do in case of a BREXIT.

Germany took on thousands of Turkish guest workers during the 70's/80's which are now probably a diaspora of Millions; they took on former East Germany that cost them a bomb and now a Million or more Arab/Asian refugees that they have to foot the bill for and yet, not much of a loud moan about it all, but they are not threatening to leave the EU due to having to pay benefits or change the EU Freedom of Movement and benefits treaties. Why is that, I wonder. :roll:

Anyway, if you want to send yourself to sleep, read the wiki link:-

History of the EU

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:41 am 
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The reason German grows and stays within the EU is because the single currency gives their huge manufacturing base a massive cheap market.

While those countries who lost their manufacturing base the UK rely on the finance sector to over compensate that loss.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:12 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
The reason German grows and stays within the EU is because the single currency gives their huge manufacturing base a massive cheap market.

While those countries who lost their manufacturing base the UK rely on the finance sector to over compensate that loss.


The old chestnut, who actually won WW2......

Answer ?...... USA champions, Germany and Japan as their post war bitches, a close second.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:32 am 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
The reason German grows and stays within the EU is because the single currency gives their huge manufacturing base a massive cheap market.

While those countries who lost their manufacturing base the UK rely on the finance sector to over compensate that loss.


The old chestnut, who actually won WW2......

Answer ?...... USA champions, Germany and Japan as their post war bitches, a close second.


Where do the French sit in all of this, asides to the top table?

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:01 pm 
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Germany's war guilt and the usual French diplomatic deceit has left the Frogs dominating European agriculture and hand outs

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:48 pm 
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suiging wrote:
Germany's war guilt and the usual French diplomatic deceit has left the Frogs dominating European agriculture and hand outs


so ...you in or out ??


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:12 pm 
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davejonesears wrote:
suiging wrote:
Germany's war guilt and the usual French diplomatic deceit has left the Frogs dominating European agriculture and hand outs


so ...you in or out ??


I was never in in the first place. Out from birth and by birth.

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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:02 pm 
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I do have one question mind, if we leave, as I have a Romanian car; would I have to give it back ?


If true, thank fuck for that......

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:18 am 
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When the UK first entered it was to develop jobs and economies, it never did, instead jobs were lost unless you were in the London financial sector.

Thats the only benefit these past decades, now because thats threatened by Frankfurt the likes of Farage are doing their bouncer work.

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:17 am 
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suiging wrote:
I do have one question mind, if we leave, as I have a Romanian car; would I have to give it back ?


If true, thank fuck for that......


I never knew Romania even produced cars, just caravans. What next for you, a Mahindra?

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:25 am 
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Embers wrote:
suiging wrote:
I do have one question mind, if we leave, as I have a Romanian car; would I have to give it back ?


If true, thank fuck for that......


I never knew Romania even produced cars, just caravans. What next for you, a Mahindra?


Dacia Duster.......lovely thing

Sassanyong next......

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:35 pm 
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suiging wrote:
Embers wrote:
suiging wrote:
I do have one question mind, if we leave, as I have a Romanian car; would I have to give it back ?


If true, thank fuck for that......


I never knew Romania even produced cars, just caravans. What next for you, a Mahindra?


Dacia Duster.......lovely thing

Sassanyong next......


I never knew that, seem like good vfm. As for SsangYong, we're off to South Korea, but why not stop off at Albania, and pick up a Tartan Prancer?

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:02 pm 
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Embers wrote:
suiging wrote:
Embers wrote:
I never knew Romania even produced cars, just caravans. What next for you, a Mahindra?


Dacia Duster.......lovely thing

Sassanyong next......


I never knew that, seem like good vfm. As for SsangYong, we're off to South Korea, but why not stop off at Albania, and pick up a Tartan Prancer?


The Dacia is a decent machine and although made in Romania, it is a part of Renault nowadays (I think). I was thinking about buying a new one, but then understood that it wouldn't fit my Mafia image so bought the second-hand Black VW-Touareg V6 instead.

Although, when I need to slum it, I still have two Russian built Lada Nivas and if you think that a Dacia is basic, try a Niva. :wink:

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:40 pm 
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We be gooin off topic a tad.

However, warning to fellow Wolfies, if you're going to buy a Duster make sure it's a Romanian one. First batch that came into the UK came from India. They rust. Dacia had to move the plant back home as the Indians made cars for deserts not frost. Easy to tell by VIN number and grill etc, but no matter how cheap, DO NOT buy one made in India.

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:31 pm 
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suiging wrote:
We be gooin off topic a tad.

However, warning to fellow Wolfies, if you're going to buy a Duster make sure it's a Romanian one. First batch that came into the UK came from India. They rust. Dacia had to move the plant back home as the Indians made cars for deserts not frost. Easy to tell by VIN number and grill etc, but no matter how cheap, DO NOT buy one made in India.


Reads like an IN vote to me. :lol:

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:38 am 
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Just look at your own region did joining the common market enable Walsall to sell more and more Saddles throughout Europe.
Did Kidderminster find massive opportunities for its carpets.

Did Stoke find new markets for its pottery.


Nope the region paid much and was rewarded with fuck all.

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:28 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Just look at your own region did joining the common market enable Walsall to sell more and more Saddles throughout Europe.
Did Kidderminster find massive opportunities for its carpets.

Did Stoke find new markets for its pottery.


Nope the region paid much and was rewarded with fuck all.


Good point, but maybe they can go here www.exportingisgreat.gov.uk

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