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 Post subject: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:45 pm 
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The bloke wants to be a Prime Minister?. The bloke has less chance than Michael Foot ever had, in fact Mr Foot was a far better politician than Corbyn could ever be.
The saddest thing about Corbyn, of many points it has to be said, is that Boris Johnson has more chance of gaining office than he has,.... sweet Jesus.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:08 am 
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You're another one who should want him to succeed, yet who sounds dead set against him.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:42 am 
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I am one who wants him to succeed, and really against this government he should.
But since becoming Labour leader, Corbyn has disappointed me over his participation in ceremonial events.
This man who has spent a lifetime on the outside, and who has served as an MP for 32 years, acts, like he does not understand Britain.
Prioritising the needs of the poor and protecting human rights, are great, but he is never going to get the chance to govern because of his actions.
He is an embarrassment, to his party and Britain.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:27 pm 
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CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
I am one who wants him to succeed, and really against this government he should.
But since becoming Labour leader, Corbyn has disappointed me over his participation in ceremonial events.
This man who has spent a lifetime on the outside, and who has served as an MP for 32 years but acts, like he does not understand Britain.
Prioritising the needs of the poor and protecting human rights, is great, but he is never going to get the chance to govern because of his actions.
He is an embarrassment, to his party and Britain.

He's behaving with dignity as far as I can tell. He's not hacking the telephones of the bereaved, he's not making stuff up about people, and he's not owned by Rupert Murdoch. The papers and television channels stirring this up, almost all foreign-owned, tell you he didn't bow when he did, then that he didn't bow enough. They probably don't show you Corbyn staying behind and chatting to veterans when every other politician has left for a function. One mainstream Tory newspaper [edit: it seems that I have misremembered and it wasn't a newspaper, it was Sky News] called him 'Jihadi Jez', the night of the Paris attacks. The media are a disgrace.

He was on the outside over Iraq, along with Robin Cook and a handful of other Labour MPs and a load of British people who marched against it. He was on the outside over PFI. He was on the outside over apartheid, and championed Mandela when some wanted him to hang by the neck.

Image

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[...]During Thatcher's time in office, members of the Federation of Conservative Students (FCS) went as far as wearing stickers declaring: "Hang Nelson Mandela" until the group was banned in 1986 by an embarrassed Tory leadership. The head of the FCS at the time, John Bercow, is now the Speaker of the Commons, but he has insisted he did not take part in the Mandela-baiting.

Nor is there any evidence that the young David Cameron was involved. However, he did visit apartheid South Africa in 1989, when he was 23, on an all-expenses-paid "fact-finding mission" funded by Strategy Network International, a lobbying group seeking to lift sanctions.[...]


(Source: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/dec/06/conservative-party-uncomfortable-nelson-mandela)

Many of the people in key government positions at the moment were part of a student society that used to burn fifty pound notes in front of homeless people for a laugh. Do they understand Britain? I hope not.

Finally,I'm not sure he is prioritising the needs of the poor, I think this is more Tory propaganda. They are trying to tell you that Labour will do nothing for the workers, and in fact that the workers will lose out under Labour. They are trying to set the Tory party up as the party of the worker and Labour as the party of the scrounger, and at the same time they are crushing unions, encouraging zero-hour contracts, destroying working tax credits and forcing wages down wherever possible. Last I heard, the Labour priority is housing. Labour does intend to raise the minimum wage to a level where people working full time no longer have to rely on benefits to top up their wages, but they also want to take the railways back into public ownership. Mind you, there have been so many government policies attacking the poor recently that maybe it just looks like Corbyn is prioritising them.

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Last edited by Nibbs Minton on Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:43 pm 
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Good post that Nibbs - I like to see constructive argument. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:00 pm 
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Ta. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:44 pm 
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If it even looks he is gaining support there is probably enough dirt on him waiting to be used.At the moment let him quietly plod on because he is no threat.Given who he has had links to in the past he will get hammered come election time by the press and smeared to ****.
Nothing better than a bit of terrorism to make cameron look like a prime minister either with his posturing shite.They all talk a good game but look a bit deeper and they are all *****.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:53 pm 
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Who will Jezza appeal to at the Polls when push comes to shove?

18-25. The persons in their first years of voting, the ones not necessarily political or even bothered with politicians. What do they have in common with their grandads?, in comparison, thats exactly what Jezza is.Where is the common ground, how does Jezza appeal to that wedge of untapped votes. What does Jezza offer to them for their votes? He will encourage them to learn to play a musical instrument. He will scrap tuition fees and offer free education for all, but he wont scrap the Oxbridge stranglehold on higher education.

25-40 These people are the ones who have created their careers. They are in the process of aspiring to be where they want to be both financially and family wise.They are the movers and shakers of society, the main tax paying wedge, the persons who buy houses and white goods and cars etc. What appeal does Jezza have for them?, well, he will increase welfare benefits for those not in work?, he will scrap Trident just about the same time Iran starts falling apart.He will open all our borders. He will increase the national minimum wage, he wont sign deals with the Russians, the Chinese, the Americans, India, Europe etc for their records regarding human rights, CO2 emissions and so on. He will however champion the re-nationalisation of the railways :roll:

40-65.
This is the age group where life becomes a little more steady and comfortable, how will Jezza appeal to this group? He will renationalise hospitals thereby taking away their choice of private healthcare.He will introduce women only wards and carriages on trains?
He will withdraw from NATO at the exact time that the worlds established military powers are under domestic threat fro ISIL?
He will introduce fairer rents for city areas, ignoring the facts that this part of his voting public have spent their lives avoiding rents and sacrificing their monies to buy their own properties?
Will he make their lives any better or safer, will he bollocks.

I have never been so disillusioned with the Labour party since Kinnock was arsing about at the head of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:02 pm 
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Let him quietly plod on? They're tearing into him every chance they get, and making something out of nothing every time the bloke stands up. Sky TV calls him 'Jihadi Jez'.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:15 pm 
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Nibbs Minton wrote:
Let him quietly plod on? They're tearing into him every chance they get, and making something out of nothing every time the bloke stands up. Sky TV calls him 'Jihadi Jez'.


Who watches sky news :lol: There was a flurry at the beginning,a small trickle keeps coming but they will have saved the best of whatever for last.
It's Jeremy who?to most out there.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:18 pm 
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kenbarlowsslippers wrote:
It's Jeremy who?to most out there.


Cor byn-Laden.

Quote:
Sky TV calls him 'Jihadi Jez'.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:06 pm 
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Nibbs Minton wrote:
Let him quietly plod on? They're tearing into him every chance they get, and making something out of nothing every time the bloke stands up. Sky TV calls him 'Jihadi Jez'.


Dead man walking.
Stick with him and resign the Labour Party to another 9 years of talking shite and creating nothing. When will the socialists learn that image, charisma and persona rules today. One cannot change shite from a position of second place. Once in power one can alter and create and adapt, until they learn how to become the power, they will always flounder in an idealistic shit pool.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:20 pm 
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Rozza wrote:
Nibbs Minton wrote:
Let him quietly plod on? They're tearing into him every chance they get, and making something out of nothing every time the bloke stands up. Sky TV calls him 'Jihadi Jez'.


Dead man walking.
Stick with him and resign the Labour Party to another 9 years of talking shite and creating nothing. When will the socialists learn that image, charisma and persona rules today. One cannot change shite from a position of second place. Once in power one can alter and create and adapt, until they learn how to become the power, they will always flounder in an idealistic shit pool.


Whatever happened to honest men without the need for a public image as designed by the media moguls. :(

They mostly look good on TV until then they get elected and then they adopt the smarmy look at me I'm honest John the second-hand car salesman, you can trust me pose.

At least Michael Foot wore a Donkey Jacket and looked mad, but who would notice another madman in today's politics.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:35 am 
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Rozza wrote:
Who will Jezza appeal to at the Polls when push comes to shove?

18-25. The persons in their first years of voting, the ones not necessarily political or even bothered with politicians. What do they have in common with their grandads?, in comparison, thats exactly what Jezza is.Where is the common ground, how does Jezza appeal to that wedge of untapped votes. What does Jezza offer to them for their votes? He will encourage them to learn to play a musical instrument. He will scrap tuition fees and offer free education for all, but he wont scrap the Oxbridge stranglehold on higher education.

25-40 These people are the ones who have created their careers. They are in the process of aspiring to be where they want to be both financially and family wise.They are the movers and shakers of society, the main tax paying wedge, the persons who buy houses and white goods and cars etc. What appeal does Jezza have for them?, well, he will increase welfare benefits for those not in work?, he will scrap Trident just about the same time Iran starts falling apart.He will open all our borders. He will increase the national minimum wage, he wont sign deals with the Russians, the Chinese, the Americans, India, Europe etc for their records regarding human rights, CO2 emissions and so on. He will however champion the re-nationalisation of the railways :roll:

40-65.
This is the age group where life becomes a little more steady and comfortable, how will Jezza appeal to this group? He will renationalise hospitals thereby taking away their choice of private healthcare.He will introduce women only wards and carriages on trains?
He will withdraw from NATO at the exact time that the worlds established military powers are under domestic threat fro ISIL?
He will introduce fairer rents for city areas, ignoring the facts that this part of his voting public have spent their lives avoiding rents and sacrificing their monies to buy their own properties?
Will he make their lives any better or safer, will he bollocks.

I have never been so disillusioned with the Labour party since Kinnock was arsing about at the head of it.

Many of the policies you have outlined here are not even Corbyn policies. They are policies the right have made up and ridiculed. Taking away the choice of private healthcare? Women-only wards should be standard everywhere. The women-only carriages thing was never a policy ever. The right pretended it was and ridiculed it while keeping quiet about somebody in their transport team suggesting it a year earlier. Coming out of Nato is not a policy either; the right keep pretending it is, but it simply is not. Scrapping tuition fees is a good policy, especially if it's targeted.

Will he make their lives any better or safer? Quite possibly, yes. Had he been PM when Blair was, their lives would be better and safer now.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:39 am 
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Moscow Wolf wrote:

Whatever happened to honest men without the need for a public image as designed by the media moguls. :(

[...]

People like Jeremy Corbyn, you mean? :P

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:33 am 
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Rozza wrote:
Stick with him and resign the Labour Party to another 9 years of talking shite and creating nothing. When will the socialists learn that image, charisma and persona rules today. One cannot change shite from a position of second place. Once in power one can alter and create and adapt, until they learn how to become the power, they will always flounder in an idealistic shit pool.


Athough Mr Minton's post was brillantly written, I believe the above quote to be true, and that sadly Corbyn is un-electable.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:40 am 
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I believe a fair and just socialist nirvana to be the true utopia which we all would enjoy living in. However, I have seen nothing in nearly sixty years which has led me to believe such a state will ever exist. Greed and malice lie at the heart of 99.9% of politicians, with a power trip taking up the odd tenth. That is why I've always gone Conservative. At least they don't ( or didnt :oops: ) try to hide it quite as much as the likes of Two Nags, Brown, Scargil or the like. The utter hypocrisy of the left always summarized best by Animal Farm.

This said, A viable labour party HAS to exist, to keep the Hooray Henry's in check ( they, the Henry's, certainly fall in the front-end of the 99%).

Thank the Lord, Cornyn is such a joke. Behind him when you scratch the surface are some folk who would put Uncle Joe's firing squads to shame. Get rid of them Labour as quick as you can, in the word's of Churchill, " your country needs you".

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:01 am 
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I was all for him...for the time being (a breath of fresh air for the Labour Party to clear out the dross), but if there's any truth in today's news about him not sanctioning a reaction to a terrorist attack then he's crossed the line.

Cor byn-Laden sounds about right.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:22 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
I was all for him...for the time being (a breath of fresh air for the Labour Party to clear out the dross), but if there's any truth in today's news about him not sanctioning a reaction to a terrorist attack then he's crossed the line.

Cor byn-Laden sounds about right.


Do you mean the air strikes, SEL, or the shoot to kill?

He's against air strikes, and always has been. David Cameron wants to bomb Syria, but won't risk trying to get a vote through the house as it will make him look weak if the vote fails, as it probably would. The right wing press will spin this as Corbyn blocking the air strikes, but here's the thing: Cameron has a majority, so how can Corbyn block him? The reason Cameron wouldn't be able to get a vote through the house is that many of his own party are against air strikes in Syria, and will vote against or at least abstain, thus destroying his majority. The right wing press will spin it as all Corbyn's fault though.

On shoot to kill, here is what he said:

Quote:
I'm not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general - I think that is quite dangerous and I think can often can be counterproductive.

I think you have to have security that prevents people firing off weapons where you can, there are various degrees for doing things as we know.

But the idea you end up with a war on the streets is not a good thing.


So, he's happy with the current guidelines, and doesn't want a blanket shoot to kill law as this puts people in extra danger. Remember that Brazilian electrician who got shot dead by police when he was just running to catch a tube train?

And here's what David Cameron wants:

Quote:
Asked about the prime minister's own opinion of the shoot-to-kill policy, David Cameron's official spokesman said such matters were ultimately "an operational decision for police on the ground".

He said there was a "clear legal framework" and that the police "have extensive training".


So, Cameron and Corbyn say the same thing on shoot to kill, but that's not the impression the media are going to give you.

[Quotes are from here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34832023 ]

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:36 pm 
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It was a comment on the 9.00am news which I heard about Labour figures being appalled by his decision that he wouldn't sanction action on the streets - as I understood it. I looked on the website but couldn't find anything so will listen to the 1.00pm news to discover more.

And I did say "...if..." :wink:

SELWolf wrote:
...if there's any truth in today's news about him not sanctioning a reaction to a terrorist attack then he's crossed the line.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:43 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
It was a comment on the 9.00am news which I heard about Labour figures being appalled by his decision that he wouldn't sanction action on the streets - as I understood it. I looked on the website but couldn't find anything so will listen to the 1.00pm news to discover more.

And I did say "If..." :wink:


Ah. It was a meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party, which is riddled with New Labour. They're giving Tories like Kuenssberg and Neil as much to work with as they can, to try to destroy Corbyn. But Corbyn's policy matches Cameron's policy - no changes are needed to current guidelines.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:58 pm 
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Nibbs Minton wrote:
SELWolf wrote:
It was a comment on the 9.00am news which I heard about Labour figures being appalled by his decision that he wouldn't sanction action on the streets - as I understood it. I looked on the website but couldn't find anything so will listen to the 1.00pm news to discover more.

And I did say "If..." :wink:


Ah. It was a meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party, which is riddled with New Labour. They're giving Tories like Kuenssberg and Neil as much to work with as they can, to try to destroy Corbyn. But Corbyn's policy matches Cameron's policy - no changes are needed to current guidelines.


He's unhappy with "lethal force on UK streets".

To be frank, I am in the interest of public safety regardless if it makes them seem to be martyrs.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:59 pm 
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Nibbs Minton wrote:
SELWolf wrote:
I was all for him...for the time being (a breath of fresh air for the Labour Party to clear out the dross), but if there's any truth in today's news about him not sanctioning a reaction to a terrorist attack then he's crossed the line.

Cor byn-Laden sounds about right.


Do you mean the air strikes, SEL, or the shoot to kill?

He's against air strikes, and always has been. David Cameron wants to bomb Syria, but won't risk trying to get a vote through the house as it will make him look weak if the vote fails, as it probably would. The right wing press will spin this as Corbyn blocking the air strikes, but here's the thing: Cameron has a majority, so how can Corbyn block him? The reason Cameron wouldn't be able to get a vote through the house is that many of his own party are against air strikes in Syria, and will vote against or at least abstain, thus destroying his majority. The right wing press will spin it as all Corbyn's fault though.

On shoot to kill, here is what he said:

Quote:
I'm not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general - I think that is quite dangerous and I think can often can be counterproductive.

I think you have to have security that prevents people firing off weapons where you can, there are various degrees for doing things as we know.

But the idea you end up with a war on the streets is not a good thing.


So, he's happy with the current guidelines, and doesn't want a blanket shoot to kill law as this puts people in extra danger. Remember that Brazilian electrician who got shot dead by police when he was just running to catch a tube train?

And here's what David Cameron wants:

Quote:
Asked about the prime minister's own opinion of the shoot-to-kill policy, David Cameron's official spokesman said such matters were ultimately "an operational decision for police on the ground".



He said there was a "clear legal framework" and that the police "have extensive training".


So, Cameron and Corbyn say the same thing on shoot to kill, but that's not the impression the media are going to give you.

[Quotes are from here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34832023 ]



Looks like Cameron is going for a second vote :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:03 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
Nibbs Minton wrote:
SELWolf wrote:
It was a comment on the 9.00am news which I heard about Labour figures being appalled by his decision that he wouldn't sanction action on the streets - as I understood it. I looked on the website but couldn't find anything so will listen to the 1.00pm news to discover more.

And I did say "If..." :wink:


Ah. It was a meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party, which is riddled with New Labour. They're giving Tories like Kuenssberg and Neil as much to work with as they can, to try to destroy Corbyn. But Corbyn's policy matches Cameron's policy - no changes are needed to current guidelines.


He's unhappy with "lethal force on UK streets".

To be frank, I am in the interest of public safety regardless if it makes them seem to be martyrs.


The trouble is Sel is has no problem with terrorists killing for causes he believes in,he is no different to Cameron or Blair,all shady,untrustworthy *****.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:35 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
Nibbs Minton wrote:
SELWolf wrote:
It was a comment on the 9.00am news which I heard about Labour figures being appalled by his decision that he wouldn't sanction action on the streets - as I understood it. I looked on the website but couldn't find anything so will listen to the 1.00pm news to discover more.

And I did say "If..." :wink:


Ah. It was a meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party, which is riddled with New Labour. They're giving Tories like Kuenssberg and Neil as much to work with as they can, to try to destroy Corbyn. But Corbyn's policy matches Cameron's policy - no changes are needed to current guidelines.


He's unhappy with "lethal force on UK streets".

To be frank, I am in the interest of public safety regardless if it makes them seem to be martyrs.


His policy is identical to that of the current PM. Regardless of smears and innuendo on the television or radio, or in the newspapers, David Cameron has exactly the same policy as Jeremy Corbyn on shoot to kill. Corbyn doesn't want the guidelines changed, and neither does Cameron.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:17 pm 
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Nibbs Minton wrote:
His policy is identical to that of the current PM. Regardless of smears and innuendo on the television or radio, or in the newspapers, David Cameron has exactly the same policy as Jeremy Corbyn on shoot to kill. Corbyn doesn't want the guidelines changed, and neither does Cameron.


Cameron (and I'm certainly no friend of him) did say that the decision was in the hands of the military. If they feel that it's right to "take them out" then I won't shed a tear. I don't think that Corbyn thinks the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:29 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:
Nibbs Minton wrote:
His policy is identical to that of the current PM. Regardless of smears and innuendo on the television or radio, or in the newspapers, David Cameron has exactly the same policy as Jeremy Corbyn on shoot to kill. Corbyn doesn't want the guidelines changed, and neither does Cameron.


Cameron (and I'm certainly no friend of him) did say that the decision was in the hands of the military. If they feel that it's right to "take them out" then I won't shed a tear. I don't think that Corbyn thinks the same.


In the street, the decision is in the hands of the police, using police in the broad term to include all security services, as described by Rozza (I think it was) on here before. That's how it is now, and neither Corbyn nor Cameron is talking about changing that. Your theories on Corbyn's thought patterns come entirely from right wing propaganda.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:19 pm 
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Nibbs Minton wrote:
SELWolf wrote:
Nibbs Minton wrote:
His policy is identical to that of the current PM. Regardless of smears and innuendo on the television or radio, or in the newspapers, David Cameron has exactly the same policy as Jeremy Corbyn on shoot to kill. Corbyn doesn't want the guidelines changed, and neither does Cameron.


Cameron (and I'm certainly no friend of him) did say that the decision was in the hands of the military. If they feel that it's right to "take them out" then I won't shed a tear. I don't think that Corbyn thinks the same.


In the street, the decision is in the hands of the police, using police in the broad term to include all security services, as described by Rozza (I think it was) on here before. That's how it is now, and neither Corbyn nor Cameron is talking about changing that. Your theories on Corbyn's thought patterns come entirely from right wing propaganda.


So are you saying that he does support lethal use of weapons on the streets?

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:36 pm 
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SELWolf wrote:

So are you saying that he does support lethal use of weapons on the streets?


I believe he accepts that it is necessary in some cases for people to be shot dead. I believe that is what he is saying here:

Quote:
I'm not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general - I think that is quite dangerous and I think can often can be counterproductive.

I think you have to have security that prevents people firing off weapons where you can, there are various degrees for doing things as we know.

But the idea you end up with a war on the streets is not a good thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeremy Corbyn
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:57 pm 
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Apparently he's been forced to clarify:

Quote:
[...]“As we have seen in the recent past, there are clear dangers to us all in any kind of shoot-to-kill policy. And we must ensure that terrorist attacks are not used to undermine the very freedoms and legal protections we are determined to defend. But of course I support the use of whatever proportionate and strictly necessary force is required to save life in response to attacks of the kind we saw in Paris.”[...]


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/17/jeremy-corbyn-allow-shoot-to-kill-exceptional-circumstances

They're all just playing games though. What he's said now is what he said earlier, just more clearly put.

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