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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:11 pm 
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CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Yesterday the Tories once again showed their true colours.


So here's a question despite everything the Tories do, why are Labour in the new year poll still only 1% ahead?


I'll give only one reason, not three..trust.

Which ever poll you look at, it makes no difference, either party is neck and neck, but after this governments performance, Labour should be like Wolves, to the Tories, Derby.

This government is possibly the worst in memory, but the parties are split by 1 or 2 points?
Why....Trust.

Whether people share Labours views or not they don't trust them.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:54 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
CANNOCK WOLF wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Yesterday the Tories once again showed their true colours.


So here's a question despite everything the Tories do, why are Labour in the new year poll still only 1% ahead?


Depends who you ask, I would say they ask people who still gain their news the old way through the news media and BBC.

Massively skewed to give an establishment bias.


Take for instance the appointment of Toby Young yesterday, he wont split opinion with the masses.

But those who are politically motivated view his sort totally different.

Now when he gets air time, and he gets considerable, Joe Public will think him unbiased and truthful.

Meanwhile centrist to left wing political people view him as a Lord Haw Haw creature.

Add to that Dacre and Murdoch have massive influence over Conservative government policy, but its just not discussed.
Whats more worrying is the influence they have over the people.

This relates to Rozzas post in this news forum, How much of Joe Public trust this Government with policing of the country.

Are they properly informed?

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/i ... inspector/


As opposed to Social Media - which of course as we all know is completey trustworthy and monitored to ensure no capacity to spread false and unsubstantiated news.

Cannock is right - people don't trust Labour or more specificaly Corbyn.

I told you in a previous post when you were eulogising about Corbyns performance that you didnt appreciate how many people didnt vote Labour purely BECAUSE of him- and that was the crux of the issue but you chose to ignore that.

People with experience don't trust him or his associaites - and therefore didnt vote Labour because of it.
Hopefully he will never get into power- even the young have cottoned on to his slight of mouth when it came to universty fees- He won't fool all of them again.


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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:30 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:



Depends who you ask, I would say they ask people who still gain their news the old way through the news media and BBC.

Massively skewed to give an establishment bias.




This is your perception KK which you repeat on a regular basis and try to portray as a fact. There are many who believe the opposite and, in particular, feel that there is a left wing bias on the BBC. Neither opinion is a provable fact it is just how people feel and I do wish you could stay more objective in your comments.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:32 pm 
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"]Yesterday the Tories once again showed their true colours.[/quote]

So here's a question despite everything the Tories do, why are Labour in the new year poll still only 1% ahead?[/quote]

Depends who you ask, I would say they ask people who still gain their news the old way through the news media and BBC.

Massively skewed to give an establishment bias.


Take for instance the appointment of Toby Young yesterday, he wont split opinion with the masses.

But those who are politically motivated view his sort totally different.

Now when he gets air time, and he gets considerable, Joe Public will think him unbiased and truthful.

Meanwhile centrist to left wing political people view him as a Lord Haw Haw creature.

Add to that Dacre and Murdoch have massive influence over Conservative government policy, but its just not discussed.
Whats more worrying is the influence they have over the people.

This relates to Rozzas post in this news forum, How much of Joe Public trust this Government with policing of the country.

Are they properly informed?

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/i ... inspector/[/quote]

As opposed to Social Media - which of course as we all know is completey trustworthy and monitored to ensure no capacity to spread false and unsubstantiated news.

Cannock is right - people don't trust Labour or more specificaly Corbyn.

I told you in a previous post when you were eulogising about Corbyns performance that you didnt appreciate how many people didnt vote Labour purely BECAUSE of him- and that was the crux of the issue but you chose to ignore that.

People with experience don't trust him or his associaites - and therefore didnt vote Labour because of it.
Hopefully he will never get into power- even the young have cottoned on to his slight of mouth when it came to universty fees- He won't fool all of them again.[/quote]

What do you mean by slight of mouth, and what do you understand that Jeremy Corbyn said about University fees?

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:43 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
"]Yesterday the Tories once again showed their true colours.


So here's a question despite everything the Tories do, why are Labour in the new year poll still only 1% ahead?[/quote]

Depends who you ask, I would say they ask people who still gain their news the old way through the news media and BBC.

Massively skewed to give an establishment bias.


Take for instance the appointment of Toby Young yesterday, he wont split opinion with the masses.

But those who are politically motivated view his sort totally different.

Now when he gets air time, and he gets considerable, Joe Public will think him unbiased and truthful.

Meanwhile centrist to left wing political people view him as a Lord Haw Haw creature.

Add to that Dacre and Murdoch have massive influence over Conservative government policy, but its just not discussed.
Whats more worrying is the influence they have over the people.

This relates to Rozzas post in this news forum, How much of Joe Public trust this Government with policing of the country.

Are they properly informed?

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/i ... inspector/[/quote]

As opposed to Social Media - which of course as we all know is completey trustworthy and monitored to ensure no capacity to spread false and unsubstantiated news.

Cannock is right - people don't trust Labour or more specificaly Corbyn.

I told you in a previous post when you were eulogising about Corbyns performance that you didnt appreciate how many people didnt vote Labour purely BECAUSE of him- and that was the crux of the issue but you chose to ignore that.

People with experience don't trust him or his associaites - and therefore didnt vote Labour because of it.
Hopefully he will never get into power- even the young have cottoned on to his slight of mouth when it came to universty fees- He won't fool all of them again.[/quote]

What do you mean by slight of mouth, and what do you understand that Jeremy Corbyn said about University fees?[/quote]

Maybe slight od mouth was a tad harsh - I know what was said and I know exactly how many students interpreted that...

There were , and are , many students that belive he was suggesting removing student debt for existing students as well as potential ones- more fool them I suppose?

It was the lack of clarification on that point -following that obvious mis-intrepetation -I was alluding to.
The subsequent ambiguity served it's purpose.


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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:27 am 
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No, there was clarity in what Jeremy Corbyn said on tuition fees, the smears came from the Tory party and your right wing press.
Just trying to undermine a fine manifesto promise.

Tories have 75 per cent of the media, and they use it not to promote themselves and their policies but to undermine the other side.

Labour don't resort to those childish tricks, that's worth highlighting.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:48 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
No, there was clarity in what Jeremy Corbyn said on tuition fees, the smears came from the Tory party and your right wing press.
Just trying to undermine a fine manifesto promise.

Tories have 75 per cent of the media, and they use it not to promote themselves and their policies but to undermine the other side.

Labour don't resort to those childish tricks, that's worth highlighting.


What was the "fine manifesto promise " ........do tell. Clarity from someone like yourself I'm sure will be appreciated by all.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:34 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
No, there was clarity in what Jeremy Corbyn said on tuition fees, the smears came from the Tory party and your right wing press.
Just trying to undermine a fine manifesto promise.

Tories have 75 per cent of the media, and they use it not to promote themselves and their policies but to undermine the other side.

Labour don't resort to those childish tricks, that's worth highlighting.

#
Hahahahaha! You told another one.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:57 pm 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
No, there was clarity in what Jeremy Corbyn said on tuition fees, the smears came from the Tory party and your right wing press.
Just trying to undermine a fine manifesto promise.

Tories have 75 per cent of the media, and they use it not to promote themselves and their policies but to undermine the other side.

Labour don't resort to those childish tricks, that's worth highlighting.


What was the "fine manifesto promise " ........do tell. Clarity from someone like yourself I'm sure will be appreciated by all.


Rule of thumb.

Corbyn and Labour have the opposite view to the right wing rags such as your local Express and Star.
Sun, Daily Mail, Express and Times.

Never believe what that lot writes politically.

Here's one for you.
What does rule of thumb mean?

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:22 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
No, there was clarity in what Jeremy Corbyn said on tuition fees, the smears came from the Tory party and your right wing press.
Just trying to undermine a fine manifesto promise.

Tories have 75 per cent of the media, and they use it not to promote themselves and their policies but to undermine the other side.

Labour don't resort to those childish tricks, that's worth highlighting.


What was the "fine manifesto promise " ........do tell. Clarity from someone like yourself I'm sure will be appreciated by all.


Rule of thumb.

Corbyn and Labour have the opposite view to the right wing rags such as your local Express and Star.
Sun, Daily Mail, Express and Times.

Never believe what that lot writes politically.

Here's one for you.
What does rule of thumb mean?


Does it mean "don't answer the question you were asked?"

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:51 am 
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After 8 years, London cabbie rapist John Worboys will be released from prison. Can we attempt to rehabilitate offenders like him?

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:35 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
After 8 years, London cabbie rapist John Worboys will be released from prison. Can we attempt to rehabilitate offenders like him?



Ask Keir Starmer. He was responsible for his prosecution and the CPS not following up on literally hundreds of further rapes this man commited

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:22 pm 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
After 8 years, London cabbie rapist John Worboys will be released from prison. Can we attempt to rehabilitate offenders like him?



Ask Keir Starmer. He was responsible for his prosecution and the CPS not following up on literally hundreds of further rapes this man commited


so 'no' then :)


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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:45 pm 
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davejonesears wrote:
suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
After 8 years, London cabbie rapist John Worboys will be released from prison. Can we attempt to rehabilitate offenders like him?



Ask Keir Starmer. He was responsible for his prosecution and the CPS not following up on literally hundreds of further rapes this man commited


so 'no' then :)


Well you could also ask Baroness Scotland of Astral, Labour peer who as the AG decided not to appeal the sentence as being too lenient. I hope when he comes out he moves next door to either of them.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:30 am 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
After 8 years, London cabbie rapist John Worboys will be released from prison. Can we attempt to rehabilitate offenders like him?



Ask Keir Starmer. He was responsible for his prosecution and the CPS not following up on literally hundreds of further rapes this man commited


I see Kier Starmer has been fully exonerated so the source of your knowledge appears to be right wing spin.

I doubt they will headline their rebuttal as quickly as they spread fake news.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:50 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
After 8 years, London cabbie rapist John Worboys will be released from prison. Can we attempt to rehabilitate offenders like him?



Ask Keir Starmer. He was responsible for his prosecution and the CPS not following up on literally hundreds of further rapes this man commited


I see Kier Starmer has been fully exonerated so the source of your knowledge appears to be right wing spin.

I doubt they will headline their rebuttal as quickly as they spread fake news.


Exonerated from what ? He was the chief bloody prosecutor !!!!!! In true Labour fashion the lack of acceptance of responsibility is simply stunning. You hold May responsible for all the ill's of the world, butsadly you can't pin this one on the current government as it was your shysters in power !!!

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:52 am 
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"]After 8 years, London cabbie rapist John Worboys will be released from prison. Can we attempt to rehabilitate offenders like him?[/quote]


Ask Keir Starmer. He was responsible for his prosecution and the CPS not following up on literally hundreds of further rapes this man commited[/quote]

I see Kier Starmer has been fully exonerated so the source of your knowledge appears to be right wing spin.

I doubt they will headline their rebuttal as quickly as they spread fake news.[/quote]

Exonerated from what ? He was the chief bloody prosecutor !!!!!! In true Labour fashion the lack of acceptance of responsibility is simply stunning. You hold May responsible for all the ill's of the world, butsadly you can't pin this one on the current government as it was your shysters in power !!![/quote]

You might want to check the facts on this matter rather than believe Tory fake news.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:57 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
"]After 8 years, London cabbie rapist John Worboys will be released from prison. Can we attempt to rehabilitate offenders like him?



Ask Keir Starmer. He was responsible for his prosecution and the CPS not following up on literally hundreds of further rapes this man commited[/quote]

I see Kier Starmer has been fully exonerated so the source of your knowledge appears to be right wing spin.

I doubt they will headline their rebuttal as quickly as they spread fake news.[/quote]

Exonerated from what ? He was the chief bloody prosecutor !!!!!! In true Labour fashion the lack of acceptance of responsibility is simply stunning. You hold May responsible for all the ill's of the world, butsadly you can't pin this one on the current government as it was your shysters in power !!![/quote]

You might want to check the facts on this matter rather than believe Tory fake news.[/quote]

He was appointed head of the CPS in 2008. Simple statement of BLOODY FACT

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:48 am 
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Nice to see on a personal level Fat Pat is going to get the sack

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:48 am 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
"]After 8 years, London cabbie rapist John Worboys will be released from prison. Can we attempt to rehabilitate offenders like him?



Ask Keir Starmer. He was responsible for his prosecution and the CPS not following up on literally hundreds of further rapes this man commited


I see Kier Starmer has been fully exonerated so the source of your knowledge appears to be right wing spin.

I doubt they will headline their rebuttal as quickly as they spread fake news.[/quote]

Exonerated from what ? He was the chief bloody prosecutor !!!!!! In true Labour fashion the lack of acceptance of responsibility is simply stunning. You hold May responsible for all the ill's of the world, butsadly you can't pin this one on the current government as it was your shysters in power !!![/quote]

You might want to check the facts on this matter rather than believe Tory fake news.[/quote]

He was appointed head of the CPS in 2008. Simple statement of BLOODY FACT[/quote]

Still reading from fake news about Kier Starmer and his role in this, shame, truth will out eventually.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:49 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
After 8 years, London cabbie rapist John Worboys will be released from prison. Can we attempt to rehabilitate offenders like him?


Simple answer is no. I could go on but I will keep this simple, Rape is seldom about the sexual gratification or release it gives the purveyor, it is principally about power and control.Once that issue is understood you then understand how cleansing the offenders mind of the reasons they wish to exert that control in such a beastial way is so difficult to treat or eradicate.

I had a couple of years managing and policing sex offenders and my mindset, like in many of my ways, I kept it simple. If I was dealing with a bloke who could get an erection whilst looking at a 8 year old boy in a cardigan in a catalogue, there wor much that I could do or say to convince him otherwise.
I stuck to the task of preventing him from ever creating further victims in his travels regardless of his Yuman Rights.

In relation to the CPS and the Courts, the case of Worboys comes down to money, the cost of trials, nothing more nothing less.
An investigation of this magnitude is enormous and has massive impacts on both Police and prosecutors abilities to manage them to a successful conclusion.
Judges will not tolerate an indictment containing numerous charges of the same ilk, CPS are under pressure to limit the indictment to the minimum needed to either prompt a guilty plea, or to provoke the bargaining process where a plea is acceptable to both parties instead of going to trial.

A simple method is this, say you can prove 15 offences ( BEYOND reasonable doubt), CPS either take the first, the middle and the last as the charges on indictment, or they may go 1,7, 12 as being the most serious or the most credible witness/victim or the best forensics, the ingredients are myriad, What is, in almost all cases is lost in the process, is the wishes and hopes of the victims.

After a lifetime battling with CPS who, to all intents and purposes, are as poorly staffed and demotivated as the Police are, I just gave up trying to push the victims need for justice at them and sadly realised that money is the biggest decider and purveyor of the term "Justice" today.

"No peace no justice" LOL, wha eva.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:55 pm 
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Rozza wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
After 8 years, London cabbie rapist John Worboys will be released from prison. Can we attempt to rehabilitate offenders like him?


Simple answer is no. I could go on but I will keep this simple, Rape is seldom about the sexual gratification or release it gives the purveyor, it is principally about power and control.Once that issue is understood you then understand how cleansing the offenders mind of the reasons they wish to exert that control in such a beastial way is so difficult to treat or eradicate.

I had a couple of years managing and policing sex offenders and my mindset, like in many of my ways, I kept it simple. If I was dealing with a bloke who could get an erection whilst looking at a 8 year old boy in a cardigan in a catalogue, there wor much that I could do or say to convince him otherwise.
I stuck to the task of preventing him from ever creating further victims in his travels regardless of his Yuman Rights.

In relation to the CPS and the Courts, the case of Worboys comes down to money, the cost of trials, nothing more nothing less.
An investigation of this magnitude is enormous and has massive impacts on both Police and prosecutors abilities to manage them to a successful conclusion.
Judges will not tolerate an indictment containing numerous charges of the same ilk, CPS are under pressure to limit the indictment to the minimum needed to either prompt a guilty plea, or to provoke the bargaining process where a plea is acceptable to both parties instead of going to trial.

A simple method is this, say you can prove 15 offences ( BEYOND reasonable doubt), CPS either take the first, the middle and the last as the charges on indictment, or they may go 1,7, 12 as being the most serious or the most credible witness/victim or the best forensics, the ingredients are myriad, What is, in almost all cases is lost in the process, is the wishes and hopes of the victims.

After a lifetime battling with CPS who, to all intents and purposes, are as poorly staffed and demotivated as the Police are, I just gave up trying to push the victims need for justice at them and sadly realised that money is the biggest decider and purveyor of the term "Justice" today.

"No peace no justice" LOL, wha eva.


I very sad indictment of a system from a man who cares. I think all those years of banging your head against a brick wall mate, has had it's toll.

You as a police officer had a well defined role in the "Justice" system. The CPS and the courts had theirs.

Money does talk. However, the political heads of government and the agencies involved in such travesty are let of too easily by folk who have been browbeaten into submission pushing shit uphill, just trying to sere the public. Yes, you know what the CPS and the Judiciary will accept on the charging of such a monster, just don't let the bastards off so easily. They have made the rules in their domain. They should be held accountable for their decisions. I bet the poor bloke who put the case together, lost sleep over the injustice of it all.

You and your colleagues in the Met did their job, someone out of your control lost sight of what their job was and still is.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:29 pm 
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Worboys - What went wrong?

Worboys is a violent and prolific sexual offender, but the failings, in this case, appear to lie at the door of the Metropolitan Police Service, not the courts and Parole Board.

Andrew Keogh, Barrister.


https://www.crimeline.info/news/worboys-what-went-wrong

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:56 pm 
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The 92-97 Tory gov saw the most ministerial resignations in history - 3 over policy (Wardle, Redwood, Heathcoat-Amory)
12 over personal conduct
(Mellor, Mates, Brown, Smith, Hamilton, Yeo, Caithness, Stewart, Hughes, Aitken, Richards, Willetts).

This current lot has far less talent and could do with a clear out.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:34 am 
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Carillion.

Any thoughts Tory voters, do you agree with Governments giving these types huge contracts?

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:55 am 
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Carillion.

Any thoughts Tory voters, do you agree with Governments giving these types huge contracts?


The tender process is always full of dangers. Carillion would underbid for contracts and then administrators were faced with calls of wasting tax payers money if they turned them down, and they will now be hung for not having the hindsight to see this coming.

Labour controlled Leeds Council signed a fourteen million contract with them LAST WEEK. Stupidity not confined to one side in this debacle.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:46 pm 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Carillion.

Any thoughts Tory voters, do you agree with Governments giving these types huge contracts?


The tender process is always full of dangers. Carillion would underbid for contracts and then administrators were faced with calls of wasting tax payers money if they turned them down, and they will now be hung for not having the hindsight to see this coming.

Labour controlled Leeds Council signed a fourteen million contract with them LAST WEEK. Stupidity not confined to one side in this debacle.


Carillion paid £394m in dividends but had a pension scheme deficit of over £800m. Employees will lose some of their pension rights. UK laws make it is so easy easy for companies to dump pension obligations.

To me this looks like straightforward theft from pensioners by management. It looks like what Philip Green did at BHS.


Hedge funds cashed in as Carillion collapsed, raking in millions.

Marshall Wace (co-founder Sir Ian Marshall a major leave backer in Brexit campaign) was the biggest winner-making £19.1 million.

Strange sick world that we readily accept without a whimper.


https://www.ft.com/content/a4dd80be-f9f ... 9be7f3120a

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:43 am 
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I’m not surprised by Carillion’s failure – companies like this shouldn’t exist

The company was too big and too reliant on state contracts to be a true private entity. Government and Whitehall share the blame for its collapse


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... tehall?CMP

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:39 am 
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Conservative Northamptonshire County Council
has just became the first local authority in 20 years to ban all new expenditure after completely running out of money.

They spent £53 million on a new Head quarters and now plan to sell it, then lease it back.

Its what Tories do, waste money on vanity projects while real priorities get ignored.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:47 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Conservative Northamptonshire County Council
has just became the first local authority in 20 years to ban all new expenditure after completely running out of money.

They spent £53 million on a new Head quarters and now plan to sell it, then lease it back.

Its what Tories do, waste money on vanity projects while real priorities get ignored.


Sadly you're correct. They seem to not have learnt from the Labour Council's debacle with the Civic Hall.

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