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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:08 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
You know if this was a balanced election through the media we wouldn't get wall to wall coverage of Ian Austin having a pop at Jeremy Corbyn.
We would have a balance if they the BBC interviewed and gave as much air time to Ken Clark, Justine Greening and Philip Hammond.

I doubt they will mention Austin sold out a long time ago, is on the earner from the Tories as an Israel trade envoy and is trying to position himself for a peerage.
Nope rather than ask questions the British people just hoover up the headline news.
Little wonder the polls reflect this bias.

Purdah lasted less than 24hrs before media realised the Tories were being slaughtered


This is the same BBC who spent virtually the whole day before on Rees-Mogg's crass gaffe , Alan Cairns resignation, and the pathetic attempt at editing the Keir Starmer video and how bad things were going for the Tories. You really need to stop looking at them with one eye KK. As it happens I heard a long interview ON THE BBC with McDonell who was dismissing Austin as a no mark (in his usual fashion) - I don't suppose you caught that. Oh, and please note that Austin is demanding an apology for the lie that he is in the pay of the Tories. He says he has not received a penny from them and he is one of 28 unpaid cross party trade envoys that were appointed amongst MP's. You also refer to Austin as sold out just as you say similar things about every Labour MP who has criticised the Corbyn regime and yet you have the nerve to keep saying that Tory supporters always turn personal instead of looking at policies when something difficult happens.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:18 am 
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Johnson not a clue on levels of immigration.

Non EU

EU.

He thought it was about 50/50.

Do you know?

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:36 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Johnson not a clue on levels of immigration.

Non EU

EU.

He thought it was about 50/50.

Do you know?


The correct answer to that in true QI style is "no-one really knows". The ONS earlier this year admitted that they had incorrectly underestimated EU immigration and overestimated non EU immigration. Even then they refer to the figures as ESTIMATES and more recently they are calling their figures EXPERIMENTAL ESTIMATES because they are trying to work out methodologies to use. I'm sure Mr Corbyn would have known of course :roll: . Perhaps you know something the ONS don't KK.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:32 am 
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48 of UK’s 151 Billionaires donate to the Tory Party. The Tory Party is the political wing of the Hedge Fund Industry.

They privatise national assets such as health and post.

By sheer ‘coincidence’ those sell offs end up in the hands of their Hedge Fund Pals....

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:37 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
48 of UK’s 151 Billionaires donate to the Tory Party. The Tory Party is the political wing of the Hedge Fund Industry.

They privatise national assets such as health and post.

By sheer ‘coincidence’ those sell offs end up in the hands of their Hedge Fund Pals....


How many donate to Labour KK. Sir Alan used too, but then the anti-semitism and sheer stupidity of the front-bench got to him. Are there any left with no conscience ?

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:25 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
48 of UK’s 151 Billionaires donate to the Tory Party. The Tory Party is the political wing of the Hedge Fund Industry.

They privatise national assets such as health and post.

By sheer ‘coincidence’ those sell offs end up in the hands of their Hedge Fund Pals....


Can you tell me specifically which of those billionaires are involved and which of their hedge funds own the shares in which of the former nationalised companies so that I can see what you mean. Or are you just throwing out more rhetoric which has no basis in fact again?

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:52 am 
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Dominic Raab has claimed “no-one gives a toss” about the fake Tory “fact-checking” service set up for the TV election debate, as the party faced calls for an official investigation.

The foreign secretary came under fire after the Conservative press office Twitter account – with nearly 76,000 followers – changed its name to ‘factcheckUK’, before pumping out support for Boris Johnson.

Its what they are, sly, underhand bunch of bastards.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:28 am 
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Compared to the Cambridge Analytic tricks of Cummings during the EU referendum, the Twitter banner was really just juvenile idiocy. It probably loses the Conservatives more voters than it wins to be honest.

Frankly, I doubt that many people with the intellectual shortcomings necessary to have swallowed that were really turned into a political debate and then scrolling through Twitter searching for "facts".

The real social media "war" will be the fun and games on Facebook and Instagram.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:56 pm 
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Anything and anyone who claims to spout ‘facts’ is instantly ignored by me, as they almost always are people who think saying FACT somehow gives their biased opinionated view some credibility.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:00 pm 
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shropswolf wrote:
Compared to the Cambridge Analytic tricks of Cummings during the EU referendum, the Twitter banner was really just juvenile idiocy. It probably loses the Conservatives more voters than it wins to be honest.

Frankly, I doubt that many people with the intellectual shortcomings necessary to have swallowed that were really turned into a political debate and then scrolling through Twitter searching for "facts".

The real social media "war" will be the fun and games on Facebook and Instagram.


We really do need independent fact checkers because we live in a time when truth should matter.

Tories up to their tricks again today with a fake Labour website, giving false information about the Labour manifesto.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:40 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
Compared to the Cambridge Analytic tricks of Cummings during the EU referendum, the Twitter banner was really just juvenile idiocy. It probably loses the Conservatives more voters than it wins to be honest.

Frankly, I doubt that many people with the intellectual shortcomings necessary to have swallowed that were really turned into a political debate and then scrolling through Twitter searching for "facts".

The real social media "war" will be the fun and games on Facebook and Instagram.


We really do need independent fact checkers because we live in a time when truth should matter.

Tories up to their tricks again today with a fake Labour website, giving false information about the Labour manifesto.



According to Labour’s supplementary “Funding Real Change” ‘Grey Book’, their spending plans come to a pocket change amount of merely £82.9 billion, and their tax rises meet this amount pound-for-pound.

The claimed amount of tax each increase will raise are frankly fanciful. The document says that whacking up corporation tax will raise £30 billion, ignoring the fact that the corporation tax cuts that the Coalition government brought in actually raised revenue. The proposed yield from the financial transactions tax is frankly fanciful. Changed behaviour would wipe out receipts…

The document also has some enormous spending omissions:

Labour’s £400 billion ‘national transformation fund’ – including a £250 billion Green Transformation Fund and a £150 Social Transformation Fund
Their 4-day working week – estimated to cost £17 billion a year in public sector wages
All Labour’s nationalisation programmes, including water, rail, energy and the royal mail – estimated by the CBI to cost £196 billion

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:48 pm 
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Hmmm... not sure the Tories NEED to put up 'fake news', the fairly-tale world of the Labour manifesto does it for them.

Now to see the Tory one....

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:05 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Hmmm... not sure the Tories NEED to put up 'fake news', the fairly-tale world of the Labour manifesto does it for them.

Now to see the Tory one....


Just calling it as Fairy-Tale fails to understand the reasoning behind such a manifesto.

For far to many decades most regions within the UK have been underfunded and ignored. Under investment has created wastelands both in Towns and the inhabitants.

Mores the pity that when those people point the finger of blame, its pointed in the wrong direction.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:11 pm 
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Are manifestos worth the paper they are written on?

Perhaps the notion of a 'contract with the people' is worth pursuing?

What I want is NOT a fantasy 'costed manifesto' (we never used to have these!), but rather a simple couple of sides of A4 which outlines their basic philosophy.

I want parties to give me a VISION for what the UK ( or Britain, or England & Wales, or whatever is left...) will look like in 10 years of their rule. I want the grand plan, not the nitty gritty detail.

And I want a LEADER to lead. Yes - by consent. But by Corbyn's logic, we will not bother with a government at all, but make decisions for the country by a mass 'Have I got views for you' programme, in which viewers vote on the issues of each day.

Capital punishment? You got it!
Cut taxes? You got it!
Free pubic transport? You got it!

Cornyn's abdication of leadership is a ridiculous stance, made out to be 'principled and pragmatic'. Will the rest of the Shadow cabinet also pledge to not argue for or against the deal that they negotiate???

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:52 pm 
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Oh dear, oh dear. Barry Barry Barry.
Brillo tore Gardiner to pieces. He just tried to shout his way out of his lies. Oh dear oh dear

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:41 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Are manifestos worth the paper they are written on?

Perhaps the notion of a 'contract with the people' is worth pursuing?

What I want is NOT a fantasy 'costed manifesto' (we never used to have these!), but rather a simple couple of sides of A4 which outlines their basic philosophy.

I want parties to give me a VISION for what the UK ( or Britain, or England & Wales, or whatever is left...) will look like in 10 years of their rule. I want the grand plan, not the nitty gritty detail.

And I want a LEADER to lead. Yes - by consent. But by Corbyn's logic, we will not bother with a government at all, but make decisions for the country by a mass 'Have I got views for you' programme, in which viewers vote on the issues of each day.

Capital punishment? You got it!
Cut taxes? You got it!
Free pubic transport? You got it!

Cornyn's abdication of leadership is a ridiculous stance, made out to be 'principled and pragmatic'. Will the rest of the Shadow cabinet also pledge to not argue for or against the deal that they negotiate???


Having read the FULL Labour party manifesto, it really is a superb piece of work.

Its both visionary and much needed after nine years of austerity which leaves the UK looking empty and without hope.
Its a shame that the vision will never see the light of day as its contents will never be judged by anything more than its cost and those that deliver it.
A real shame because it would give the UK a massive lift at a time when its badly required..

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:23 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Are manifestos worth the paper they are written on?

Perhaps the notion of a 'contract with the people' is worth pursuing?

What I want is NOT a fantasy 'costed manifesto' (we never used to have these!), but rather a simple couple of sides of A4 which outlines their basic philosophy.

I want parties to give me a VISION for what the UK ( or Britain, or England & Wales, or whatever is left...) will look like in 10 years of their rule. I want the grand plan, not the nitty gritty detail.

And I want a LEADER to lead. Yes - by consent. But by Corbyn's logic, we will not bother with a government at all, but make decisions for the country by a mass 'Have I got views for you' programme, in which viewers vote on the issues of each day.

Capital punishment? You got it!
Cut taxes? You got it!
Free pubic transport? You got it!

Cornyn's abdication of leadership is a ridiculous stance, made out to be 'principled and pragmatic'. Will the rest of the Shadow cabinet also pledge to not argue for or against the deal that they negotiate???


Having read the FULL Labour party manifesto, it really is a superb piece of work.

Its both visionary and much needed after nine years of austerity which leaves the UK looking empty and without hope.
Its a shame that the vision will never see the light of day as its contents will never be judged by anything more than its cost and those that deliver it.
A real shame because it would give the UK a massive lift at a time when its badly required..


If you've read it, can you explain Labour's Brexit position, as it seems to have changed again today. Also Labour’s Immigration policy, as wide open but controlled doors simply doesn't make sense. I wont ask you for costings as we all know, they simply are fluff and fallacies.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:15 am 
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Trouble is, it is not 'visionary', but an illusion. The two are NOT the same.

NO manifesto should be 100+ pages!

If you cannot say what your vision for the future is on 4 pages, then it is not worth reading the froth and nonsense.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:40 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Trouble is, it is not 'visionary', but an illusion. The two are NOT the same.

NO manifesto should be 100+ pages!

If you cannot say what your vision for the future is on 4 pages, then it is not worth reading the froth and nonsense.


Translucent rather than transparent

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:00 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Trouble is, it is not 'visionary', but an illusion. The two are NOT the same.

NO manifesto should be 100+ pages!

If you cannot say what your vision for the future is on 4 pages, then it is not worth reading the froth and nonsense.


The fewer the detail the better for Tories, well is there a choice as Johnson has never done detail having the attention span of a five year old for everything.

What if the Tories go for a very basic trade deal with the EU as they look to the USA for the trade shortfall.
Big mistake, your then looking at a long recession and stagnation... If only the voters were aware of the long term outcome. Another decade lost.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:06 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Trouble is, it is not 'visionary', but an illusion. The two are NOT the same.

NO manifesto should be 100+ pages!

If you cannot say what your vision for the future is on 4 pages, then it is not worth reading the froth and nonsense.


The fewer the detail the better for Tories, well is there a choice as Johnson has never done detail having the attention span of a five year old for everything.

What if the Tories go for a very basic trade deal with the EU as they look to the USA for the trade shortfall.
Bug mistake, your then looking at a long recession and stagnation... If only the voters were aware of the long term outcome. Another decade lost.



Where is the drive and determination to be innovative in a socialist, nationalised economy ? Why work hard when if you do, you will lose it in taxation, not be allowed to pass it on to your kids, and be guaranteed a pleasant enough life-style from the State for doing nothing ?

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:20 pm 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Trouble is, it is not 'visionary', but an illusion. The two are NOT the same.

NO manifesto should be 100+ pages!

If you cannot say what your vision for the future is on 4 pages, then it is not worth reading the froth and nonsense.


The fewer the detail the better for Tories, well is there a choice as Johnson has never done detail having the attention span of a five year old for everything.

What if the Tories go for a very basic trade deal with the EU as they look to the USA for the trade shortfall.
Bug mistake, your then looking at a long recession and stagnation... If only the voters were aware of the long term outcome. Another decade lost.



Where is the drive and determination to be innovative in a socialist, nationalised economy ? Why work hard when if you do, you will lose it in taxation, not be allowed to pass it on to your kids, and be guaranteed a pleasant enough life-style from the State for doing nothing ?


Before the innovation there has to be investment.
If you haven't noticed investment in the regions and its people has been non existent for decades.
This is why Labour governments are always looking to make up the shortfall.
Buying and selling derivatives in the City is a game for the few not the many.
At the moment the UK has an economy surviving on personal credit and debt which cant be sustained.
Labour offer a way out of the mess.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:26 pm 
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Labour offer a controlled society where the idle are rewarded and the hard workers are tied to paying the nation's crippling debt for generations. It is no surprise to anyone that Corbyn and cabal hold Venezuela up as a socialist Nirvana.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:50 am 
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New firgures from Shelter have just confirmed more than 135,000 British children will wake up homeless on Christmas Day. This is the highest for 12 years.

Just 1 homeless child is a disgrace. 135,000 is a fucking national scandal.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:10 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
New firgures from Shelter have just confirmed more than 135,000 British children will wake up homeless on Christmas Day. This is the highest for 12 years.

Just 1 homeless child is a disgrace. 135,000 is a fucking national scandal.


I agree with you that child homelessness is a disgrace - I don't agree that it is a party political issue, it is far more complex than that and ALL politicians should be working on it. Note that by saying it is the highest figure for 12 years you are also saying that it was as bad or worse than this 12 years ago (under Labour) and has not worsened since then.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:53 am 
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On my flight home from Cologne yesterday, I read in the Eurowings in flight magazine that in Germany 4m children are living in poverty, that really shook me sideways. In the richest country in Europe too, frightening.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:04 pm 
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Hmmmm!
Trouble with many such statistics is that they miss out a crucial detail: definitions.

How are they defining ‘poverty’?
How are they defining homeless?

The former is incredibly vague. The latter does NOT mean you are out on the street! That really WOULD be a national scandal.

Headlines are so often written to grab attention. But one needs to know who commissioned and did the research to generate the data, and what does the detailed analysis of the data tell a disinterested reader. Trouble is that most such studies are paid for and done by a group with a particular agenda wanting to ‘prove’ something that chimes with their bias.

And that goes for BOTH sides!

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:42 pm 
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My perception was SHELTER would be pretty much independent and would be looking to highlight a growing problem.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:30 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
My perception was SHELTER would be pretty much independent and would be looking to highlight a growing problem.


My Perception given that you posted this under the thread "This Government"was that you were trying to score a political point but the information you gave did not support that anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: This Government.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:34 pm 
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Left back wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
My perception was SHELTER would be pretty much independent and would be looking to highlight a growing problem.


My Perception given that you posted this under the thread "This Government"was that you were trying to score a political point but the information you gave did not support that anyway.


With regard to definitions of poverty I believe that in the uk "a household with income less than 60% of the national median average" is in relative poverty. I would suggest that most households just a little below this figure are a long way from absolute poverty.

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