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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:45 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
g"]If the public statements of Davies did not match roughly what was agreed and understood by the two parties, we would soon here about it from the other side. Their silence speaks volumes. The rantings of a mad Irishman are.....the rantings of a mad Irishman.


The thoughts of Davis have been badly received by Irish Ministers, they have also been rebuked by Kenneth Clarke in the Commons yesterday.


Clarke ? That would be the Clarke who would sell his mother to remain and do anything in his power to derail the process......[/quote]

And would those be the Irish ministers who have grown rich and fat on both EU subsidies and cross-border trade while at the same time singing about Bobby Sands and the other heroes of THEIR cause whenever they smell a tin of shandy ?[/quote]

You may pour scorn at the Irish but their voice will carry more weight with the EU27 than the English voice.[/quote]

Not the point. The actual negotiators have not said Davies is wrong. Both Clarke and the Irish have their own agenda. Nothing wrong with a sovereign nation like Eire trying to have it's cake and eat it. It's only the PC fools like Clarke who think Great Britain should roll over and take it up the bum from anyone who fancies it.[/quote]

I believe Ireland will prove key to the UK remaining in the EU, Always thought it would go down to hard or soft borders.
Plus the behind the scenes ruthlessness of the British monarchy who will never give up their land or the break up of the Union.

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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:50 am 
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http://www.westmonster.com/brits-back-c ... -eu-trade/


In another uncomfortable finding for the establishment, an ORB poll shows that the British people still regard controls on immigration as more important than trade access.

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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:52 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
http://www.westmonster.com/brits-back-controls-on-immigration-as-more-important-than-eu-trade/


In another uncomfortable finding for the establishment, an ORB poll shows that the British people still regard controls on immigration as more important than trade access.



Even though I disagree, I would fight for the right of British people to control their own destiny. Wouldn't you ?

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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:58 am 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
http://www.westmonster.com/brits-back-controls-on-immigration-as-more-important-than-eu-trade/


In another uncomfortable finding for the establishment, an ORB poll shows that the British people still regard controls on immigration as more important than trade access.



Even though I disagree, I would fight for the right of British people to control their own destiny. Wouldn't you ?


If its that important why not a blanket ban on NON EU Countries which the UK government could do independently.

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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:05 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
http://www.westmonster.com/brits-back-controls-on-immigration-as-more-important-than-eu-trade/


In another uncomfortable finding for the establishment, an ORB poll shows that the British people still regard controls on immigration as more important than trade access.



Even though I disagree, I would fight for the right of British people to control their own destiny. Wouldn't you ?


If its that important why not a blanket ban on NON EU Countries which the UK government could do independently.


Anyone of any race, colour, nationality or creed, should be welcome in this country as long as they add value to the community and live peacefully abiding by our national laws.

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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:18 am 
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http://www.westmonster.com/brits-back-c ... -eu-trade/


In another uncomfortable finding for the establishment, an ORB poll shows that the British people still regard controls on immigration as more important than trade access.[/quote]


Even though I disagree, I would fight for the right of British people to control their own destiny. Wouldn't you ?[/quote]

If its that important why not a blanket ban on NON EU Countries which the UK government could do independently.[/quote]

Anyone of any race, colour, nationality or creed, should be welcome in this country as long as they add value to the community and live peacefully abiding by our national laws.[/quote]

Yet if you have a large number of immigrants within one community who fail to integrate you have division.
Then from that division you get mistrust, then from mistrust you get other more deep seated problems.
Throw religion into the pot.

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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:25 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
http://www.westmonster.com/brits-back-controls-on-immigration-as-more-important-than-eu-trade/


In another uncomfortable finding for the establishment, an ORB poll shows that the British people still regard controls on immigration as more important than trade access.



Even though I disagree, I would fight for the right of British people to control their own destiny. Wouldn't you ?[/quote]

If its that important why not a blanket ban on NON EU Countries which the UK government could do independently.[/quote]

Anyone of any race, colour, nationality or creed, should be welcome in this country as long as they add value to the community and live peacefully abiding by our national laws.[/quote]

Yet if you have a large number of immigrants within one community who fail to integrate you have division.
Then from that division you get mistrust, then from mistrust you get other more deep seated problems.
Throw religion into the pot.[/quote]

A result of PC Britain "allowing" the isolation to exist in the first place. Successive governments have poured money into isolated communities. Not to help them integrate, but to " celebrate" their differences and by default building the walls ever higher.

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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:26 am 
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I think David Davis has had a very difficult job to do. I like him and his approach to dealing with the EU dictatorship. But, he has started something with his latest comments. The EU are shifting bricks again and will be much tougher to deal with from now on. I think Davies and Boris do this deliberately to just let them know we aren't all in thrall to the Superstate. Barnier, Verhofstadt, and Brock are all on their soapboxes again. Listening to these dictators I am delighted to say in March 2019 "au revoir et baise toi" to these disgusting creatures. I would never settle for the likes of them dictating our lives.

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Last edited by Deano's Golden Boots on Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:22 pm 
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Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
I think Davies and Boris do this deliberately to just let them know we aren't all in thrall to the Superstate.


Nothing of course to do with them playing to the Tory gallery? Nothing to do with positioning themselves for the leadership?

Johnson: The EU can "go whistle"; cue a big thumbs-up from the Tory hardcore and their media.

Reality: All financial obligations to be paid in full by the UK.

Davis agrees to everything behind closed doors in Brussels, but then goes on UK TV and shoots his mouth off to shore up his support with the party faithful, then quickly phones up the European parliament to say that he didn't mean anything he said on TV and claims he was "misinterpreted".

How you can be misinterpreted in a television interview broadcast live on the most-watched channel is rather puzzling.

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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:23 pm 
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I wouldn't give you thrupence for the Tory front bench but like Dominic Grieve, one of the good guys.

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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:31 pm 
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https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/89121 ... nion-video

When the penny seemingly drops, even for the Express... :wink:


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:35 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
I wouldn't give you thrupence for the Tory front bench but like Dominic Grieve, one of the good guys.


Intresting statement ...what do you base that on?

His constituency voted out (like you did I believe) ...so ...should he have 'exercised his parliamentary right' ..or shoud he have followed his constituencies wishes.

Before we start we all know that he wasn't voting against Brexit ...but we also all know...he was.


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:38 am 
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SpaceMonkey wrote:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/891217/Brexit-news-latest-Rand-corporation-Brexit-update-UK-economy-gdp-EU-European-Union-video

When the penny seemingly drops, even for the Express... :wink:


Ah yes the Rand Corporation ...funded by (amongst others) the American Government ...they that also bought you President 'You will be at the back of the queue' Obhama - still I suppose you believed that as well.


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:06 am 
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I think this might be my favourite Daily Mail front page ever. The toys are well and truly out of the pram.


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:04 am 
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davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
I wouldn't give you thrupence for the Tory front bench but like Dominic Grieve, one of the good guys.


Intresting statement ...what do you base that on?

His constituency voted out (like you did I believe) ...so ...should he have 'exercised his parliamentary right' ..or shoud he have followed his constituencies wishes.

Before we start we all know that he wasn't voting against Brexit ...but we also all know...he was.


Because he knows the role of Government and the difference between resolutions and statutes which is important when this Brexit bill returns to Parliament.
He was a good Attorney General wrongly sacked by David Cameron, for what, standing up for human rights.

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:41 am 
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For those who missed it, try and catch up with Wednesday's Newsnight. Sir Richard Dearlove put the whole of this mess into a much wider perspective. The gravitas of his mind obviously stunned the interviewer, but his points were excellent.

In short the UK has always been a thorn in the side of Europe and always will be with it's historical and necessary central Atlantic position making us culturally and politically different. A federalist Europe would run better as our trading partner, than with us as a connected at the hip reluctant member. Trade for all would improve and European security maintained with a better armed UK joining with the USA to balance the Russian or whatever threat.

Trump no more than a passing idiocy, the USA underpinning the West.

Europeans have always looked across the channel with envy or disdain. That will never change.

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:54 am 
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It seems to me that the Remainers, in whatever guise or party - are out to stop Brexit come what may. It is a slap into the face of democracy - whether you voted STAY or LEAVE, the will of the majority of UK voters is being pissed on. I now think that it will be a hard Brexit as we are never going to get a soft one under this shower of self-centred, arrogant, self opinionated political bastards. Too many barriers have been put in front of our exit by the EU as well as our own politicians, be they Davis, Gove, Johnson, Clarke or Corbyn. Clegg, Cable even Gina Miller et al. The guff about letting parliament have the final say is a disguised Remainer effort to stop it. So, I predict two scenarios:

A). Hard Brexit, put through by us withdrawing from talks with the EU as the only way to get us out.

B). Soft or NO Brexit.......brought on by a Corbyn Government that will get elected next Spring and try to have another referendum to re-evaluate the people's opinion after nearly three years of hand wringing and bile as the nation now sees a bigger and better picture of the benefits / disadvantages of staying or leaving. When we voted, the LEAVE support really had no clear picture or plan of what was going to happen after the vote, the REMAINERS just thought life would go on as normal. Cameron fucked it up and he is the main man to blame for this mess. Add to that incompetence by May, Davis et al and the Remainers trying to stymy everything at every step and we have what we have today, a shambles that disrespects the peoples wishes to leave the EU, whether one likes it or not.

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:00 pm 
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There's a lesson to be learnt, don't have a referendum on something which NOBODY has a clue about the outcome.

The Tories all but a handful willing to potentially throw the country off an Economic cliff because they put party first.

Well done those so called Tory rebels. You will be remembered in history for the right reasons.

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:49 pm 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
It seems to me that the Remainers, in whatever guise or party - are out to stop Brexit come what may. It is a slap into the face of democracy - whether you voted STAY or LEAVE, the will of the majority of UK voters is being pissed on. I now think that it will be a hard Brexit as we are never going to get a soft one under this shower of self-centred, arrogant, self opinionated political bastards. Too many barriers have been put in front of our exit by the EU as well as our own politicians, be they Davis, Gove, Johnson, Clarke or Corbyn. Clegg, Cable even Gina Miller et al. The guff about letting parliament have the final say is a disguised Remainer effort to stop it. So, I predict two scenarios:

A). Hard Brexit, put through by us withdrawing from talks with the EU as the only way to get us out.

B). Soft or NO Brexit.......brought on by a Corbyn Government that will get elected next Spring and try to have another referendum to re-evaluate the people's opinion after nearly three years of hand wringing and bile as the nation now sees a bigger and better picture of the benefits / disadvantages of staying or leaving. When we voted, the LEAVE support really had no clear picture or plan of what was going to happen after the vote, the REMAINERS just thought life would go on as normal. Cameron fucked it up and he is the main man to blame for this mess. Add to that incompetence by May, Davis et al and the Remainers trying to stymy everything at every step and we have what we have today, a shambles that disrespects the peoples wishes to leave the EU, whether one likes it or not.


Corbyn won't win an election any time soon, he is not gaining any traction at all.

Corbyn at heart is no pro-EU campaigner in any case and is too much of a populist to go against the "will of the people", the new get out of all responsibility tag.

After the circus of 2016 and the death of an MP in the streets, there will never be another referendum called in this country for decades.

Regardless of political allegiance, only a remote fringe few actually want a no deal scenario. Most no deal chatter has only ever been sabre-rattling and ensuring Daily Mail support for when May goes. It's the type of chatter that gets a damn good chuckle at the 1922 Committee Xmas bash after another bottle of Bolly is emptied: "And then, I told them, well, you can go whistle for that money..." "Oh, good show, old chap".

Nobody in the EU wants a no deal scenario either. There is too much for everyone to lose.

The UK will cease being a full EU member in 2019. The only question is the length of any transitionary arrangements.

Those who voted in Parliament yesterday want to be able to pressure the government into the type of trade deal they find most attractive, not just whatever Davis can cobble together as he bends over again/falls asleep during negotiations.

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:54 am 
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Once the terms of leaving are known by the electorate should those terms be voted on by the electorate by way of referendum.

Otherwise as it stands we have Turkeys voting for Christmas.



http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-sto ... -1-5321037

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:41 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Once the terms of leaving are known by the electorate should those terms be voted on by the electorate by way of referendum.

Otherwise as it stands we have Turkeys voting for Christmas.



http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-sto ... -1-5321037



Another person from that country that has stood as a rock against tyranny for so many years.....Luxembourg. That mighty trading nation with an economy that shames the rest of the world by it's exports to Belgium. You are right Knocker, an unelected eurocrat from this mighty nation has every right to demand we stay under their wing !...... I just didn't get it until I read that article.

And yes !! Let's have another referendum, and then another, and another until we all as a nation recognise Luxembourg's God given power over the free world.

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:00 am 
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Interesting phone call.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/j ... migration/

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:00 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:


That man is a condescending oxygen thief .

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:25 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Once the terms of leaving are known by the electorate should those terms be voted on by the electorate by way of referendum.

Otherwise as it stands we have Turkeys voting for Christmas.


http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-sto ... -1-5321037


No we had the vote- its time to at least pretend to honour it.

To have yet another & try and expect the electorate to understand the nuances of such a deal would be a ridiculous waste of time- what exactly would be the point?

Unless of course its the same point both Labour and it seems some Tories are making which is to frustrate , delay , undermine and ultimately derail it - regardless of the effect that will have.

As for Turkeys voting for christmas ...I say YET AGAIN - my undertsanding was you voted out- would the gentleman like to clarify his position on his previous vote.?


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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:45 pm 
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SpaceMonkey wrote:
suiging wrote:

The good folk of Gib voted with a majority of 99% to remain under the British umbrella of sovereignty.
If the French invaded the Channel Islands what would you do ? Suggest we just let them against the will of free British citizens...


I don't understand. Spain has mentioned nothing about invading anyone.

If Gib want to be under our sovereignty then they have to accept they will no longer be part of the EU either. Which means the EU (Spain) have every right to dictate what any trade deal will look like and to protect their border.

The EU have all the power here. What are the UK going to do if the EU say no? Not leave the EU? ha.

The UK have pissed off a number of EU nations over the years. Now it's payback time. I don't take any joy from that, but it doesn't change the fact it's true.
Remember in 1985 when the UK blocked Spain from joining the EU if they didn't open the border to Gib? "What goes around comes around" is a saying that works for countries as well as individuals.


Would happily sell Gibraltar back to the Spanish. It just a gambling and offshore tax dodge location. We no longer have an empire in the East so don't need a string of naval bases/strong points to protect trade routes and supply lines.

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
I think David Davis has had a very difficult job to do. I like him and his approach to dealing with the EU dictatorship. But, he has started something with his latest comments. The EU are shifting bricks again and will be much tougher to deal with from now on. I think Davies and Boris do this deliberately to just let them know we aren't all in thrall to the Superstate. Barnier, Verhofstadt, and Brock are all on their soapboxes again. Listening to these dictators I am delighted to say in March 2019 "au revoir et baise toi" to these disgusting creatures. I would never settle for the likes of them dictating our lives.


The EU are desperate for our money and want a deal, we need make sure to push for the best possible deal.

Looks like Freedom of Movement will end and that is the main reason we voted leave.

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:03 pm 
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THE BIG BAD WOLF wrote:
SpaceMonkey wrote:
suiging wrote:

The good folk of Gib voted with a majority of 99% to remain under the British umbrella of sovereignty.
If the French invaded the Channel Islands what would you do ? Suggest we just let them against the will of free British citizens...


I don't understand. Spain has mentioned nothing about invading anyone.

If Gib want to be under our sovereignty then they have to accept they will no longer be part of the EU either. Which means the EU (Spain) have every right to dictate what any trade deal will look like and to protect their border.

The EU have all the power here. What are the UK going to do if the EU say no? Not leave the EU? ha.

The UK have pissed off a number of EU nations over the years. Now it's payback time. I don't take any joy from that, but it doesn't change the fact it's true.
Remember in 1985 when the UK blocked Spain from joining the EU if they didn't open the border to Gib? "What goes around comes around" is a saying that works for countries as well as individuals.


Would happily sell Gibraltar back to the Spanish. It just a gambling and offshore tax dodge location. We no longer have an empire in the East so don't need a string of naval bases/strong points to protect trade routes and supply lines.


You don't sell a sovereign people. That may happen in Russia, but not negotiable here.

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:05 pm 
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THE BIG BAD WOLF wrote:
Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
I think David Davis has had a very difficult job to do. I like him and his approach to dealing with the EU dictatorship. But, he has started something with his latest comments. The EU are shifting bricks again and will be much tougher to deal with from now on. I think Davies and Boris do this deliberately to just let them know we aren't all in thrall to the Superstate. Barnier, Verhofstadt, and Brock are all on their soapboxes again. Listening to these dictators I am delighted to say in March 2019 "au revoir et baise toi" to these disgusting creatures. I would never settle for the likes of them dictating our lives.


The EU are desperate for our money and want a deal, we need make sure to push for the best possible deal.

Looks like Freedom of Movement will end and that is the main reason we voted leave.


The EU loves brinksmanship. They push any deal to the last minute of any deadline. Now we have to take such deal back to a self-serving Parliament ........doomed.

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:40 pm 
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suiging wrote:

You don't sell a sovereign people. That may happen in Russia, but not negotiable here.


They aren't British so why should I have any interest in the Gibraltarians and subsiding their tax dodge schemes. They are free to chart their own path in this world.

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:41 pm 
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suiging wrote:
The EU loves brinksmanship. They push any deal to the last minute of any deadline. Now we have to take such deal back to a self-serving Parliament ........doomed.


They seemed to agree the first stage of negotiations quickly, and didn't put up much of a fuss?

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