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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:16 am 
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What a waste of time that bloke Johnson is, in many ways he typifies everything thats wrong with the UK.
A bloke who enjoys a major government position, not based on any talent, he has very few, but by decree of his schooling.

Its this class system which continually prevents the UK from doing well in the world and until it ends will continue to flounder.

Just listen to the bloke.

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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:05 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
What a waste of time that bloke Johnson is, in many ways he typifies everything thats wrong with the UK.
A bloke who enjoys a major government position, not based on any talent, he has very few, but by decree of his schooling.

Its this class system which continually prevents the UK from doing well in the world and until it ends will continue to flounder.

Just listen to the bloke.


Your right Knocker. He did study the classics at Oxford and was voted President of The Oxford Union. Remind me which polytechnic Corbyn failed at ?

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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:43 am 
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I often wonder why May put Boris as F/ S, maybe she wanted him where she could see him and where he would fuck up and not be on the back benches plotting and conniving. If I was a PM, I would not have him within five miles of me. Bonehead.

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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:49 am 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
I often wonder why May put Boris as F/ S, maybe she wanted him where she could see him and where he would fuck up and not be on the back benches plotting and conniving. If I was a PM, I would not have him within five miles of me. Bonehead.


Keep your friends close and your enemies closer

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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:08 am 
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suiging wrote:
gladbachwolf wrote:
I often wonder why May put Boris as F/ S, maybe she wanted him where she could see him and where he would fuck up and not be on the back benches plotting and conniving. If I was a PM, I would not have him within five miles of me. Bonehead.


Keep your friends close and your enemies closer



In a nutshell.

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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:33 am 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zaEzH7poTs

With top talent like this guy out there batting for us, there is no way this can turn out badly.

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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Did anyone notice Andrew Neil's obvious Tory leanings coming to the fore there? (Well he does work for the BBC and KK keeps assuring us that the BBC is totally Tory biased and gives their representatives an easy ride.)

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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:47 pm 
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Left back wrote:
Did anyone notice Andrew Neil's obvious Tory leanings coming to the fore there? (Well he does work for the BBC and KK keeps assuring us that the BBC is totally Tory biased and gives their representatives an easy ride.)


Absolute disgrace. Let off the hook at every turn. If he was Labour he would have been given a much rougher ride.

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:53 pm 
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shropswolf wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zaEzH7poTs

With top talent like this guy out there batting for us, there is no way this can turn out badly.


Rare for Andrew Neill to prolong an attack on a Tory, he will lose his seat on the inner sanctum of Tory influence. Big mates with David Cameron among others.

Open goal though, to not go for the jugular would have exposed himself.

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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:38 pm 
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David Davis seems to think the definition of a successful Brexit is one that won't resort to a 'Mad Max' style future for Britain. :lol:


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 Post Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:28 am 
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SpaceMonkey wrote:
David Davis seems to think the definition of a successful Brexit is one that won't resort to a 'Mad Max' style future for Britain. :lol:


Whoever called David Daivis out as " Thick as mince " was bang on the money.

To use a film

He reminds me of the guy in Goodfellas who after buying his wife a new fur coat thinks its a good idea to frequent the bar with her.

They just don't get it.

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:04 pm 
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Free Trade has always been a corner stone of socialism. Not anymore......

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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:08 pm 
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The nation will be given a clear choice, Labour looking for a customs union with the EU,
An agreement based on free movement of goods in and out of the EU trade sector, with jobs and workers rights at its core.

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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:06 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
The nation will be given a clear choice, Labour looking for a customs union with the EU,
An agreement based on free movement of goods in and out of the EU trade sector, with jobs and workers rights at its core.


Rich conservatives, Blair, the Kinnocks and the big bosses of the CBI like his about turn. The average Labour voter........eeerrr

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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:36 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
The nation will be given a clear choice, Labour looking for a customs union with the EU,
An agreement based on free movement of goods in and out of the EU trade sector with jobs and workers rights at its core.


Something that the "principled" Mr Corbyn has consistently voted against over the last 35 years. He sees a chance to grab power by capitalizing on a Tory split and now who cares about principles. I really do not like the Tories despite sounding like a Daily Mail columnist every time I respond to a post by KK as I think they lack any sort of compassion but I do not Trust Corbyn or his ability to control the likes of McDonnell and Momentum who will be concerned only with their own agenda not the interests of the country as a whole.

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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:48 pm 
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Sir Martin Donnelly, former permanent secretary at the Dept for International Trade, tells BBC r4 today leaving the single market and customs union is like "giving up a three course meal for the promise of a packet of crisps in the future"

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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:57 pm 
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I saw that on the BBC News at lunch time. How dare they broadcast such anti Tory stuff.

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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:33 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Sir Martin Donnelly, former permanent secretary at the Dept for International Trade, tells BBC r4 today leaving the single market and customs union is like "giving up a three course meal for the promise of a packet of crisps in the future"


He also being an ex-EU official may have helped

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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:24 pm 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Sir Martin Donnelly, former permanent secretary at the Dept for International Trade, tells BBC r4 today leaving the single market and customs union is like "giving up a three course meal for the promise of a packet of crisps in the future"


He also being an ex-EU official may have helped


Suig answer me this. Against big international bullies like China and the USA (not to mention India, Brazil, and the EU in the future). Who gets the better deal when trying to negotiate with them? a small country 1/7th of the GDP size of those bullies or a giant "country" that is as big if not bigger?

Look how the EU have stood up to Apple, Microsoft and Google in the past few years. Companies that are as big as many countries when it comes to wealth. They bitch about how the EU is just anti-American and how unfair it is, but in the end have no choice but to do whatever we tell them to do.

Do you see the UK having the same clout? The main solution Brexiteers seem to have to overcome this is just to 'be positive'. :lol:


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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:04 am 
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SpaceMonkey wrote:
suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Sir Martin Donnelly, former permanent secretary at the Dept for International Trade, tells BBC r4 today leaving the single market and customs union is like "giving up a three course meal for the promise of a packet of crisps in the future"


He also being an ex-EU official may have helped


Suig answer me this. Against big international bullies like China and the USA (not to mention India, Brazil, and the EU in the future). Who gets the better deal when trying to negotiate with them? a small country 1/7th of the GDP size of those bullies or a giant "country" that is as big if not bigger?

Look how the EU have stood up to Apple, Microsoft and Google in the past few years. Companies that are as big as many countries when it comes to wealth. They bitch about how the EU is just anti-American and how unfair it is, but in the end have no choice but to do whatever we tell them to do.

Do you see the UK having the same clout? The main solution Brexiteers seem to have to overcome this is just to 'be positive'. :lol:


Good question. Without a Crystal Ball difficult to see exactly how it will fall. An indicator to me is the economies of Australia and the likes of New Zealand. Both vibrant and serving their people just fine. For our white collar economy, I look to Hong Kong and the likes of Singapore. Again booming but I accept without some of the moral tethers our country would find acceptable. With the power to make our own way, I would hope we can take the best both economically, financially, with our own values from such countries across the world

I have said time and time Again, the EU WILL trade with us. Their politician's who desperately want to keep power will have no choice. They want our goods they want our market. Their businesses will not allow them to take away bread from their table.

There are more than 27 countries in the world. There are not many with our skills, history, and dogged determination to succeed.

Edited to add: For some years my office used to overlook and be responsible for the Tsing Yi container port. Tsing Yi has for many years been on and off one of the biggest ports in the world. 24/7 goods from all over the world, are shipped all over the world. The view that the EU is omnipotent to European trade is simply not true. Globalisation and World Trade in general has moved on from being defined by how far your pigeon could fly with a message. As a nation our membership of the EU has not made us more outlooking, we have become more insular. We have no right to be a global trading power, we will have to work at it. However, without the tariffs so loved by the CBI, The Kinnocks and now Jeremy Corbyn, with work and application, we can become a global trading nation again. Some of you want the crutch that comes with being told what to do and how high to jump by central Europe. Historically we have been the envy of the Eurocrats because we refused to fall into that domination. Time to think on our feet and trade with the world on our terms, once again.

So the French won't sell you this season your favourite apple. Never mind eat a South African one and wait for the French farmers to block roads with their surplus forcing their Government to reopen their market......

It won't be easy, No quick fixes, but we are a nation of traders, we just have forgotten how to do it.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:56 am 
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You can make a binding promise that there will be regulatory convergence in Ireland.

And you can promise no border in the Irish Sea to the DUP.

As you can also promise to leave the customs union to the people of the UK.

But in the process you guarantee three things.

First you are guaranteed to look like a fool because the three are incompatible.

Second, you are guaranteed to break your promise to someone as a result, and you can be sure they will be annoyed.

Third, you can guarantee that the person to whom you made the binding promise will pull rank and say you must honour the commitment. The EU did that on the issue of the Irish border yesterday. They were right to do so.

May continues to make many foolish and expedient promises.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:23 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
You can make a binding promise that there will be regulatory convergence in Ireland.

And you can promise no border in the Irish Sea to the DUP.

As you can also promise to leave the customs union to the people of the UK.

But in the process you guarantee three things.

First you are guaranteed to look like a fool because the three are incompatible.

Second, you are guaranteed to break your promise to someone as a result, and you can be sure they will be annoyed.

Third, you can guarantee that the person to whom you made the binding promise will pull rank and say you must honour the commitment. The EU did that on the issue of the Irish border yesterday. They were right to do so.

May continues to make many foolish and expedient promises.


Tell me KK. What is the difference between the Customs Union and the Customs Union ? Corbyn promises not to be in one, but pledges to be in the other ?

The Irish issue is perplexing to me. No politician on the front or shadow benches has explained why the sky will fall in with a post exit border ? Having a nominal border doesn't mean you have to be stopped there. with computers the world has moved on. Pre-customs clearances, random checks in the ether etc etc.Like many older members on here, I have a little GSM with a bar for Northern Ireland. Last time I was there there, there were two sovereign nations on the Island. What's the Republic's solution ? Not the EU's but the Republic's ? Spain has shown the EU has no say in sovereign territorial matters and I'm damn sure the majority in the North ( yes the Prods still are...just ) won't, and don't, give a rat's ass what some Junker says about their country. So why doesn't some Luxembourger go and try to speak to them on the Crumlin Road ? See how far he gets ?

Life is easy from your posh office in Strasbourg.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:51 am 
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Ireland.
In essence there is a requirement for a customs union to enable and retain economic equality both sides of the border.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:51 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Ireland.
In essence there is a requirement for a customs union to enable and retain economic equality both sides of the border.


The Republic of Ireland is a totally different country. Why do we in the UK need economic parity wit them ? Did they care when their Tiger economy was booming about the poverty in the North ?

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:01 pm 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
You can make a binding promise that there will be regulatory convergence in Ireland.

And you can promise no border in the Irish Sea to the DUP.

As you can also promise to leave the customs union to the people of the UK.

But in the process you guarantee three things.

First you are guaranteed to look like a fool because the three are incompatible.

Second, you are guaranteed to break your promise to someone as a result, and you can be sure they will be annoyed.

Third, you can guarantee that the person to whom you made the binding promise will pull rank and say you must honour the commitment. The EU did that on the issue of the Irish border yesterday. They were right to do so.

May continues to make many foolish and expedient promises.


Tell me KK. What is the difference between the Customs Union and the Customs Union ? Corbyn promises not to be in one, but pledges to be in the other ?

The Irish issue is perplexing to me. No politician on the front or shadow benches has explained why the sky will fall in with a post exit border ? Having a nominal border doesn't mean you have to be stopped there. with computers the world has moved on. Pre-customs clearances, random checks in the ether etc etc.Like many older members on here, I have a little GSM with a bar for Northern Ireland. Last time I was there there, there were two sovereign nations on the Island. What's the Republic's solution ? Not the EU's but the Republic's ? Spain has shown the EU has no say in sovereign territorial matters and I'm damn sure the majority in the North ( yes the Prods still are...just ) won't, and don't, give a rat's ass what some Junker says about their country. So why doesn't some Luxembourger go and try to speak to them on the Crumlin Road ? See how far he gets ?

Life is easy from your posh office in Strasbourg.


This has nothing to do with "economic parity".

The single market has nothing to do with ensuring all countries are of equal economic strength, that would be ridiculous in a group of 27/28 diverse nations with different population sizes, natural resources, historical wealth and land masses.

It's not a "nominal border" - it is the border into and out of a single market zone where regulatory convergence i.e. common standards of quality is guaranteed.

There has to be the ability to stop and check all goods moving into that single market zone are compliant with those standards of quality. There are border stops for all goods entering into the EU along the eastern border for example.

Ignoring the fact that the UK has not offered a single new technological idea for the issue and David Davis eventually conceded in front of the Select Committee that his ideas regarding the issue were just "blue sky thinking" and withdrew them, even with advances in technology made over past decades, there cannot be an invisible outer border of a single market. No such arrangements exist anywhere in the world where different markets meet.

That clown Johnson mentioning the congestion charge within London just shows what little grasp he has of anything: a congestion charge is simply a levy on a vehicle crossing a line within a country, not a border post between two nations where the precise contents (and occupants) of that vehicle are of relevance.

Unless the Republic of Ireland is going to withdraw from the EU, the only options are therefore:

* Northern Ireland alone ensures total regulatory convergence with EU standards, thus moving the outer EU border to the Irish Sea;
* The entire United Kingdom ensures total regulatory convergence with EU standards;
* The UK gives up Northern Ireland and it is integrated into the Republic of Ireland
* There is a hard border through the island

One has to be chosen/agreed.

In December, the first option was chosen by May/the UK government/UK negotiators.

There's no use playing this game all the while of agreeing something then vaguely claiming in the media that something else was agreed or getting cold feet when the hard Brexit media hold their feet to the fire. There is very little room for kicking pivotal issues into the long grass any longer.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:20 pm 
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shropswolf wrote:
suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
You can make a binding promise that there will be regulatory convergence in Ireland.

And you can promise no border in the Irish Sea to the DUP.

As you can also promise to leave the customs union to the people of the UK.

But in the process you guarantee three things.

First you are guaranteed to look like a fool because the three are incompatible.

Second, you are guaranteed to break your promise to someone as a result, and you can be sure they will be annoyed.

Third, you can guarantee that the person to whom you made the binding promise will pull rank and say you must honour the commitment. The EU did that on the issue of the Irish border yesterday. They were right to do so.

May continues to make many foolish and expedient promises.


Tell me KK. What is the difference between the Customs Union and the Customs Union ? Corbyn promises not to be in one, but pledges to be in the other ?

The Irish issue is perplexing to me. No politician on the front or shadow benches has explained why the sky will fall in with a post exit border ? Having a nominal border doesn't mean you have to be stopped there. with computers the world has moved on. Pre-customs clearances, random checks in the ether etc etc.Like many older members on here, I have a little GSM with a bar for Northern Ireland. Last time I was there there, there were two sovereign nations on the Island. What's the Republic's solution ? Not the EU's but the Republic's ? Spain has shown the EU has no say in sovereign territorial matters and I'm damn sure the majority in the North ( yes the Prods still are...just ) won't, and don't, give a rat's ass what some Junker says about their country. So why doesn't some Luxembourger go and try to speak to them on the Crumlin Road ? See how far he gets ?

Life is easy from your posh office in Strasbourg.


This has nothing to do with "economic parity".

The single market has nothing to do with ensuring all countries are of equal economic strength, that would be ridiculous in a group of 27/28 diverse nations with different population sizes, natural resources, historical wealth and land masses.

It's not a "nominal border" - it is the border into and out of a single market zone where regulatory convergence i.e. common standards of quality is guaranteed.

There has to be the ability to stop and check all goods moving into that single market zone are compliant with those standards of quality. There are border stops for all goods entering into the EU along the eastern border for example.

Ignoring the fact that the UK has not offered a single new technological idea for the issue and David Davis eventually conceded in front of the Select Committee that his ideas regarding the issue were just "blue sky thinking" and withdrew them, even with advances in technology made over past decades, there cannot be an invisible outer border of a single market. No such arrangements exist anywhere in the world where different markets meet.

That clown Johnson mentioning the congestion charge within London just shows what little grasp he has of anything: a congestion charge is simply a levy on a vehicle crossing a line within a country, not a border post between two nations where the precise contents (and occupants) of that vehicle are of relevance.

Unless the Republic of Ireland is going to withdraw from the EU, the only options are therefore:

* Northern Ireland alone ensures total regulatory convergence with EU standards, thus moving the outer EU border to the Irish Sea;
* The entire United Kingdom ensures total regulatory convergence with EU standards;
* The UK gives up Northern Ireland and it is integrated into the Republic of Ireland
* There is a hard border through the island

One has to be chosen/agreed.

In December, the first option was chosen by May/the UK government/UK negotiators.

There's no use playing this game all the while of agreeing something then vaguely claiming in the media that something else was agreed or getting cold feet when the hard Brexit media hold their feet to the fire. There is very little room for kicking pivotal issues into the long grass any longer.


Totally agree. Hard border ( as you call it ) it will have to be. The technology issue is paramount and should be the focus of attention. A border, the border, does not have to be anything like what the old one was to effective. It is also not just " Our" problem to solve. I say again the Republic is a sovereign nation who like us, do not wish the bad old days to return. It is time they told their lords and masters in the EU exactly what fire they are playing with.

You do not want the Protestant extremists to rise up and fight for what they consider to be their lives. They would make the troubles seem like a day pass to Lego Land.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:45 pm 
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suiging wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
suiging wrote:

Tell me KK. What is the difference between the Customs Union and the Customs Union ? Corbyn promises not to be in one, but pledges to be in the other ?

The Irish issue is perplexing to me. No politician on the front or shadow benches has explained why the sky will fall in with a post exit border ? Having a nominal border doesn't mean you have to be stopped there. with computers the world has moved on. Pre-customs clearances, random checks in the ether etc etc.Like many older members on here, I have a little GSM with a bar for Northern Ireland. Last time I was there there, there were two sovereign nations on the Island. What's the Republic's solution ? Not the EU's but the Republic's ? Spain has shown the EU has no say in sovereign territorial matters and I'm damn sure the majority in the North ( yes the Prods still are...just ) won't, and don't, give a rat's ass what some Junker says about their country. So why doesn't some Luxembourger go and try to speak to them on the Crumlin Road ? See how far he gets ?

Life is easy from your posh office in Strasbourg.


This has nothing to do with "economic parity".

The single market has nothing to do with ensuring all countries are of equal economic strength, that would be ridiculous in a group of 27/28 diverse nations with different population sizes, natural resources, historical wealth and land masses.

It's not a "nominal border" - it is the border into and out of a single market zone where regulatory convergence i.e. common standards of quality is guaranteed.

There has to be the ability to stop and check all goods moving into that single market zone are compliant with those standards of quality. There are border stops for all goods entering into the EU along the eastern border for example.

Ignoring the fact that the UK has not offered a single new technological idea for the issue and David Davis eventually conceded in front of the Select Committee that his ideas regarding the issue were just "blue sky thinking" and withdrew them, even with advances in technology made over past decades, there cannot be an invisible outer border of a single market. No such arrangements exist anywhere in the world where different markets meet.

That clown Johnson mentioning the congestion charge within London just shows what little grasp he has of anything: a congestion charge is simply a levy on a vehicle crossing a line within a country, not a border post between two nations where the precise contents (and occupants) of that vehicle are of relevance.

Unless the Republic of Ireland is going to withdraw from the EU, the only options are therefore:

* Northern Ireland alone ensures total regulatory convergence with EU standards, thus moving the outer EU border to the Irish Sea;
* The entire United Kingdom ensures total regulatory convergence with EU standards;
* The UK gives up Northern Ireland and it is integrated into the Republic of Ireland
* There is a hard border through the island

One has to be chosen/agreed.

In December, the first option was chosen by May/the UK government/UK negotiators.

There's no use playing this game all the while of agreeing something then vaguely claiming in the media that something else was agreed or getting cold feet when the hard Brexit media hold their feet to the fire. There is very little room for kicking pivotal issues into the long grass any longer.


Totally agree. Hard border ( as you call it ) it will have to be. The technology issue is paramount and should be the focus of attention. A border, the border, does not have to be anything like what the old one was to effective. It is also not just " Our" problem to solve. I say again the Republic is a sovereign nation who like us, do not wish the bad old days to return. It is time they told their lords and masters in the EU exactly what fire they are playing with.

You do not want the Protestant extremists to rise up and fight for what they consider to be their lives. They would make the troubles seem like a day pass to Lego Land.


The old border was in force before the EU Single Market came into effect in the early 90s and existed based on financial tariffs and security concerns, particularly given the activities of the IRA.

Since then, common regulatory standards need to be enforced within the single market zone, which necessitate the ability to check any goods entering the EU from outside.

Wherever such a border exists, controls are in place i.e. the border between France and Switzerland, a nation outside of the EU Single Market nor the EEA - a destiny that the Tory party is apparently seeking for the UK.

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:12 am 
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With all these calls coming in from diehard remainers for a second referendum, I wonder why they feel it is so crucial in terms of the UK's electorate to turn to them at this time ?

No one asked us if we wished to join in 1972, Edward "Euro loving" Heath, just did it. When we were asked if we wished to remain in 1975 over sixty percent of the sixty percent who voted wished to stay...Job done. However in 1980, only 26% of a National Poll wished to stay. This overwhelming majority were ignored. No calls from the gravy trainers then, that our freedoms were being glossed over. The political elite turned a blind eye.

Where were the people making the most noise now about a second referendum, when the overwhelming majority of the Nation wished to leave ? It seems the public only matter when things haven't quite gone their way. They knew better in 1980, they know better now. Absolutely nothing about "The People's Choice" just as ever- self-interest.

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:28 am 
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suiging wrote:
With all these calls coming in from diehard remainers for a second referendum, I wonder why they feel it is so crucial in terms of the UK's electorate to turn to them at this time ?

No one asked us if we wished to join in 1972, Edward "Euro loving" Heath, just did it. When we were asked if we wished to remain in 1975 over sixty percent of the sixty percent who voted wished to stay...Job done. However in 1980, only 26% of a National Poll wished to stay. This overwhelming majority were ignored. No calls from the gravy trainers then, that our freedoms were being glossed over. The political elite turned a blind eye.

Where were the people making the most noise now about a second referendum, when the overwhelming majority of the Nation wished to leave ? It seems the public only matter when things haven't quite gone their way. They knew better in 1980, they know better now. Absolutely nothing about "The People's Choice" just as ever- self-interest.


Surely the difference now is that the process of leaving has been put into action and people are perhaps seeing that it is not the simple process that they had expected (due to the misleading statements by the Leave campaign), but actually has very deep and complicated consequences.

In addition, the vote result was not a decisive 74/26 as you cite as public opinion in 1980, but 51.9/48.1 and on a turnout of less than 72 percent.

Why would you worry about a second referendum anyway though?

Even Farage has advocated it as he is convinced it would be an even more compelling victory for his side of the fight. Or is Farage just exhibiting "self interest" too? Hmm.

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Wolves' Head of Football Development & Recruitment Kevin Thelwell added: "Grant Holt has been at a lot of clubs and there is a reason for that - he is a very good player."


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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:15 am 
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shropswolf wrote:
suiging wrote:
With all these calls coming in from diehard remainers for a second referendum, I wonder why they feel it is so crucial in terms of the UK's electorate to turn to them at this time ?

No one asked us if we wished to join in 1972, Edward "Euro loving" Heath, just did it. When we were asked if we wished to remain in 1975 over sixty percent of the sixty percent who voted wished to stay...Job done. However in 1980, only 26% of a National Poll wished to stay. This overwhelming majority were ignored. No calls from the gravy trainers then, that our freedoms were being glossed over. The political elite turned a blind eye.

Where were the people making the most noise now about a second referendum, when the overwhelming majority of the Nation wished to leave ? It seems the public only matter when things haven't quite gone their way. They knew better in 1980, they know better now. Absolutely nothing about "The People's Choice" just as ever- self-interest.


Surely the difference now is that the process of leaving has been put into action and people are perhaps seeing that it is not the simple process that they had expected (due to the misleading statements by the Leave campaign), but actually has very deep and complicated consequences.

In addition, the vote result was not a decisive 74/26 as you cite as public opinion in 1980, but 51.9/48.1 and on a turnout of less than 72 percent.

Why would you worry about a second referendum anyway though?

Even Farage has advocated it as he is convinced it would be an even more compelling victory for his side of the fight. Or is Farage just exhibiting "self interest" too? Hmm.


The percentages are public record. I suppose it's just interpretation and choice of which record you choose to believe.

The fear of the second referendum is not the possible outcome, but the turmoil and potential catastrophic rifts it would cause in our country no matter what the outcome. Like so many other learned calls at present, it's aim is not to seek clarity or serve the will of the people, it's quite the opposite. The self-interested elite, just can't let go of the concept that they know better than the people who voted

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