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 Post Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:56 pm 
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shropswolf wrote:
suiging wrote:
After the vote, the Bank and all the metrocentric remoaners said the pound would become a joke and we would immediately fall into recession.

What happened ? Did I miss it ?

Of course, as the average remoaner is so much better informed than anyone else each little reversal in their predictions is to be ignored, as they still believe in their own omnipotence, and as they believe it, so should everyone else. I just wish I was one of them. It must be great to have access to the all seeing eye.


We aren't leaving the UK until March 2019 so nothing has changed yet.

Is this supposed to be some form of a victory speech? Well, the pound didn't tank after all, hooray! As long as we can hold off the recession for another year they'll be getting the Union Jack bunting out down UKIP HQ.


Why does someone who voted leave have to be a UKIP supporter ? Using that logic all remoaners must have pictures of Blair and Clegg hanging in their outside privy.

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 Post Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:03 pm 
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shropswolf wrote:
suiging wrote:
After the vote, the Bank and all the metrocentric remoaners said the pound would become a joke and we would immediately fall into recession.

What happened ? Did I miss it ?

Of course, as the average remoaner is so much better informed than anyone else each little reversal in their predictions is to be ignored, as they still believe in their own omnipotence, and as they believe it, so should everyone else. I just wish I was one of them. It must be great to have access to the all seeing eye.


We aren't leaving the UK until March 2019 so nothing has changed yet.

Is this supposed to be some form of a victory speech? Well, the pound didn't tank after all, hooray! As long as we can hold off the recession for another year they'll be getting the Union Jack bunting out down UKIP HQ.


All victory speeches were given after the democratic vote result came in. I am aware you B-Liar supporters have a different view on democracy. I suppose it comes from your God given right to believe in your own superiority.

Going back to page one of this thread you will see folk who voted leave hoping for a better future. You will see post after post of B-Liar/Clegg lovers disparaging anyone's view bar their own. Sad really

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 Post Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:32 pm 
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suiging wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
suiging wrote:
After the vote, the Bank and all the metrocentric remoaners said the pound would become a joke and we would immediately fall into recession.

What happened ? Did I miss it ?

Of course, as the average remoaner is so much better informed than anyone else each little reversal in their predictions is to be ignored, as they still believe in their own omnipotence, and as they believe it, so should everyone else. I just wish I was one of them. It must be great to have access to the all seeing eye.


We aren't leaving the UK until March 2019 so nothing has changed yet.

Is this supposed to be some form of a victory speech? Well, the pound didn't tank after all, hooray! As long as we can hold off the recession for another year they'll be getting the Union Jack bunting out down UKIP HQ.


Why does someone who voted leave have to be a UKIP supporter ? Using that logic all remoaners must have pictures of Blair and Clegg hanging in their outside privy.


A poor comparison as UKIP's sole policy and entire reason of existence was to leave the UK so if you support leaving the EU you are de facto a UKIP supporter. By contrast, New Labour, Lib Dems, Tories, Greens, etc. have/had a huge plethora of policies to split opinions upon, everything from foreign invasions to tuition fees and minimum wages.

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 Post Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Not that I have read it, but I think you may find the UKIP manifesto is full of other rubbish as well as their admirable stance on the EU.

But of course, as you have said that's all they stand for it must be true......right ?

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 Post Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:30 pm 
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suiging wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
suiging wrote:
After the vote, the Bank and all the metrocentric remoaners said the pound would become a joke and we would immediately fall into recession.

What happened ? Did I miss it ?

Of course, as the average remoaner is so much better informed than anyone else each little reversal in their predictions is to be ignored, as they still believe in their own omnipotence, and as they believe it, so should everyone else. I just wish I was one of them. It must be great to have access to the all seeing eye.


We aren't leaving the UK until March 2019 so nothing has changed yet.

Is this supposed to be some form of a victory speech? Well, the pound didn't tank after all, hooray! As long as we can hold off the recession for another year they'll be getting the Union Jack bunting out down UKIP HQ.


All victory speeches were given after the democratic vote result came in. I am aware you B-Liar supporters have a different view on democracy. I suppose it comes from your God given right to believe in your own superiority.

Going back to page one of this thread you will see folk who voted leave hoping for a better future. You will see post after post of B-Liar/Clegg lovers disparaging anyone's view bar their own. Sad really


Yes. Sad really. But inevitable I fear.

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 Post Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:42 pm 
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Looks like we will be saving 40 billion if the EU don't start acting like grown ups and treat this country with some respect. Listening to them it's only the UK that's gonna suffer if the negotiations end with trading on WTO rules. What's protecting them from the fallout that they reckon we will suffer? Look past the bullying and bravado and I bet they are "shifting bricks" if we leave them 40 billion out of pocket. What a f***ing awful bunch they are.

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 Post Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:06 pm 
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Politicians come and go. Trade remains, and either prospers or fails on the back of business men and skilled workers.

What trumps the lot is money. Europe will trade with the UK. The UK will trade with Europe, money will dictate it, money will burn any politicos that stand in it's way.

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 Post Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:35 pm 
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suiging wrote:
Politicians come and go. Trade remains, and either prospers or fails on the back of business men and skilled workers.

What trumps the lot is money. Europe will trade with the UK. The UK will trade with Europe, money will dictate it, money will burn any politicos that stand in it's way.


Nobody has ever claimed there won't be trade between Europe and the UK. The question for UK industry is will the terms of future trade under which it has to operate be better than the current ones, the same or worse?

As it is leaving the internal market occupied by almost all of Europe's major nations, it is unlikely that the future terms could ever be more favourable or even the same.

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 Post Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:30 am 
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shropswolf wrote:
suiging wrote:
Politicians come and go. Trade remains, and either prospers or fails on the back of business men and skilled workers.

What trumps the lot is money. Europe will trade with the UK. The UK will trade with Europe, money will dictate it, money will burn any politicos that stand in it's way.


Nobody has ever claimed there won't be trade between Europe and the UK. The question for UK industry is will the terms of future trade under which it has to operate be better than the current ones, the same or worse?

As it is leaving the internal market occupied by almost all of Europe's major nations, it is unlikely that the future terms could ever be more favourable or even the same.


Your premise is correct if we as a nation are tied to doing the same deals with the same organisation

The French say we will sell you Apple's for X. We will be able to buy them from South Africa for Y. Anyone who uses the mileage argument has no concept of containerisation

We will prosper. That is my view. You have a different one

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 Post Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:32 am 
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Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
Looks like we will be saving 40 billion if the EU don't start acting like grown ups and treat this country with some respect. Listening to them it's only the UK that's gonna suffer if the negotiations end with trading on WTO rules. What's protecting them from the fallout that they reckon we will suffer? Look past the bullying and bravado and I bet they are "shifting bricks" if we leave them 40 billion out of pocket. What a f***ing awful bunch they are.


On the flipside you will be losing 270 billion worth of trade for that 40 saving.

OK, its not that simple, On my estimates you will eventually be paying in around 40 billion for around 180 billion in return.

Norway option.

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 Post Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:55 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
Looks like we will be saving 40 billion if the EU don't start acting like grown ups and treat this country with some respect. Listening to them it's only the UK that's gonna suffer if the negotiations end with trading on WTO rules. What's protecting them from the fallout that they reckon we will suffer? Look past the bullying and bravado and I bet they are "shifting bricks" if we leave them 40 billion out of pocket. What a f***ing awful bunch they are.


On the flipside you will be losing 270 billion worth of trade for that 40 saving.

OK, its not that simple, On my estimates you will eventually be paying in around 40 billion for around 180 billion in return.

Norway option.


Politics will screw up the first few months for sure. After that, trade will resume. Europe NEEDS the UK market as much or more than we need theirs. Money and trade will prevail. In the end. It always does.

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 Post Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:05 am 
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Because of the right wing media and the incompetence of the Conservative party I fear the general public have to suffer the pain before they accept the reality.

It aint it will be alright on the night.

12 months on and the UK will be begging to get back in.

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 Post Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:08 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Because of the right wing media and the incompetence of the Conservative party I fear the general public have to suffer the pain before they accept the reality.

It aint it will be alright on the night.

12 months on and the UK will be begging to get back in.



Like you were begging to get out ?

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 Post Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:12 am 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Because of the right wing media and the incompetence of the Conservative party I fear the general public have to suffer the pain before they accept the reality.

It aint it will be alright on the night.

12 months on and the UK will be begging to get back in.



Like you were begging to get out ?



I enjoy Conservative governments falling apart. A lot.

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 Post Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:19 am 
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suiging wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
suiging wrote:
Politicians come and go. Trade remains, and either prospers or fails on the back of business men and skilled workers.

What trumps the lot is money. Europe will trade with the UK. The UK will trade with Europe, money will dictate it, money will burn any politicos that stand in it's way.


Nobody has ever claimed there won't be trade between Europe and the UK. The question for UK industry is will the terms of future trade under which it has to operate be better than the current ones, the same or worse?

As it is leaving the internal market occupied by almost all of Europe's major nations, it is unlikely that the future terms could ever be more favourable or even the same.


Your premise is correct if we as a nation are tied to doing the same deals with the same organisation

The French say we will sell you Apple's for X. We will be able to buy them from South Africa for Y. Anyone who uses the mileage argument has no concept of containerisation

We will prosper. That is my view. You have a different one


"The French" is a misnomer. Companies in the UK buy goods from companies who are based in one country or another. If the company is based in the EU any transactions will be subject to the trade regulations between the EU and the UK. The UK will never be able to make separate deals with individual EU nations as this is prohibited.

Of course, companies generally source goods from multiple suppliers based in separate geographic locations particularly in the case of fruit as the harvest seasons obviously vary around the world.

Knowing that any future deal for importing from companies based in the EU will no longer be as frictionless and advantageous as present, the challenge for the UK is trying to offset that against imports from non-EU countries. This is particularly important as the majority of goods imported from the UK at present come from the EU market.

suiging wrote:
Europe NEEDS the UK market as much or more than we need theirs. Money and trade will prevail. In the end. It always does.


Unfortunately this is the thinking that has squandered two years of time spent dawdling through negotiations under the illusion this is some poker game and Johnny Foreigner will cave sooner or later.

The UK needs the EU market more than the other way round - by far.

After the UK leaves, each EU country will lose frictionless trade with 1 country. The UK will lose frictionless trade with 27 countries.

The EU countries will however be soon benefiting from the new bumper EU trade deals with Japan and South Korea. The UK will be starting from scratch with regard to such countries.

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 Post Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:46 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
Looks like we will be saving 40 billion if the EU don't start acting like grown ups and treat this country with some respect. Listening to them it's only the UK that's gonna suffer if the negotiations end with trading on WTO rules. What's protecting them from the fallout that they reckon we will suffer? Look past the bullying and bravado and I bet they are "shifting bricks" if we leave them 40 billion out of pocket. What a f***ing awful bunch they are.


On the flipside you will be losing 270 billion worth of trade for that 40 saving.

OK, its not that simple, On my estimates you will eventually be paying in around 40 billion for around 180 billion in return.

Norway option.


Your maths are pure speculation. From the Diane Abbott school of economics. No-one knows how the finances are going to turn out. Including the EU. But I trust my country to survive and prosper. We will control our money, laws, and immigration. That's what you voted for it is said on here.

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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:55 am 
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On what basis do people think the UK can prosper outside the EU

I keep hearing Use World Trading Organisation.

That's not as simple as it seems and needs to be better understood.

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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:28 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
On what basis do people think the UK can prosper outside the EU

I keep hearing Use World Trading Organisation.

That's not as simple as it seems and needs to be better understood.


Like the "once in a lifetime vote" arguments, your question has been asked and answered so many times it is simply tiresome to point someone who clearly will just ignore any arguments that don't fit his/her's or their agenda, to countless replies on this issue. Before Momentum ordered you to change your mind, you were fully supportive of leave, you are well aware of the arguments. The Remoaners constantly ask the same question, as they are deaf to the answers given. The only thing they agree on is the poor MAJORITY who made their decision, are below them on the evolutionary scale, and thus can be assumed to be clueless, and simply ignored.

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:07 am 
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It's simple
Business relies on stability and confidence
It's easier to get business from existing customers than to find new ones in far flung places
By worsening our trading position with the EU confidence and stability will be damaged and we will lose more business before we can replace it
Investment will be hit
At the same time the pound will fall further so the cost of living will rise for ordinary families at a time when interest rates are on the way up and the Bank of England will want them high to protect the pound
Things haven't got worse because we haven't left and everyone assumed we would be sensible enough to do a sensible deal. Pull out without one things are highly likely to get worse economically.
Common sense really


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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:31 am 
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raggedwolf wrote:
It's simple
Business relies on stability and confidence
It's easier to get business from existing customers than to find new ones in far flung places
By worsening our trading position with the EU confidence and stability will be damaged and we will lose more business before we can replace it
Investment will be hit
At the same time the pound will fall further so the cost of living will rise for ordinary families at a time when interest rates are on the way up and the Bank of England will want them high to protect the pound
Things haven't got worse because we haven't left and everyone assumed we would be sensible enough to do a sensible deal. Pull out without one things are highly likely to get worse economically.
Common sense really



Mate it's not simple.

Counterarguments to nearly all your points have been posted time after time. The reality of the situation, like most things in life, lies somewhere in the middle of the two sets of views. The ability to settle down and get on with that "middle ground" is where we want to be.

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:42 am 
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raggedwolf wrote:
It's simple
Business relies on stability and confidence
It's easier to get business from existing customers than to find new ones in far flung places
By worsening our trading position with the EU confidence and stability will be damaged and we will lose more business before we can replace it
Investment will be hit
At the same time the pound will fall further so the cost of living will rise for ordinary families at a time when interest rates are on the way up and the Bank of England will want them high to protect the pound
Things haven't got worse because we haven't left and everyone assumed we would be sensible enough to do a sensible deal. Pull out without one things are highly likely to get worse economically.
Common sense really


And all the suffering will be in the UK ? Doesn't anybody on here believe the EU will also suffer with a no deal outcome? Of course they bloody will. They are "shifting bricks" as well I'll wager.

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
raggedwolf wrote:
It's simple
Business relies on stability and confidence
It's easier to get business from existing customers than to find new ones in far flung places
By worsening our trading position with the EU confidence and stability will be damaged and we will lose more business before we can replace it
Investment will be hit
At the same time the pound will fall further so the cost of living will rise for ordinary families at a time when interest rates are on the way up and the Bank of England will want them high to protect the pound
Things haven't got worse because we haven't left and everyone assumed we would be sensible enough to do a sensible deal. Pull out without one things are highly likely to get worse economically.
Common sense really


And all the suffering will be in the UK ? Doesn't anybody on here believe the EU will also suffer with a no deal outcome? Of course they bloody will. They are "shifting bricks" as well I'll wager.


The strength they gain through the single market economically allows them continual growth even though a leading player wishes to leave.

Europe is getting richer.

Its a trade off they will have to consider continually as the EU develops itself as the UK looks to other ways of development.

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:04 pm 
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Jeremy Corbyn to PM on Brexit

"If you deliver a deal that includes a customs union and no hard border in Ireland, if you protect jobs, people’s rights at work and environmental and consumer standards - then we will support that sensible deal”

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:07 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Jeremy Corbyn to PM on Brexit

"If you deliver a deal that includes a customs union and no hard border in Ireland, if you protect jobs, people’s rights at work and environmental and consumer standards - then we will support that sensible deal”


That totally unacceptable deal for the EU. Again, no responsibility, so spout impossible bollocks as much as you like....it's the Corbyn way.

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:03 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Deano's Golden Boots wrote:
raggedwolf wrote:
It's simple
Business relies on stability and confidence
It's easier to get business from existing customers than to find new ones in far flung places
By worsening our trading position with the EU confidence and stability will be damaged and we will lose more business before we can replace it
Investment will be hit
At the same time the pound will fall further so the cost of living will rise for ordinary families at a time when interest rates are on the way up and the Bank of England will want them high to protect the pound
Things haven't got worse because we haven't left and everyone assumed we would be sensible enough to do a sensible deal. Pull out without one things are highly likely to get worse economically.
Common sense really


And all the suffering will be in the UK ? Doesn't anybody on here believe the EU will also suffer with a no deal outcome? Of course they bloody will. They are "shifting bricks" as well I'll wager.


The strength they gain through the single market economically allows them continual growth even though a leading player wishes to leave.

Europe is getting richer.

Its a trade off they will have to consider continually as the EU develops itself as the UK looks to other ways of development.


Europe is getting richer? You mean France and Germany don't you although their debts exceed one trillion euro. Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Hungary, aren't doing so well. Apparently there are over 20 countries of the EU27 whose debts are in excess of the 60% of GDP limit set out in the Maastricht treaty. Doing well ain't they?

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:10 pm 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Jeremy Corbyn to PM on Brexit

"If you deliver a deal that includes a customs union and no hard border in Ireland, if you protect jobs, people’s rights at work and environmental and consumer standards - then we will support that sensible deal”


That totally unacceptable deal for the EU. Again, no responsibility, so spout impossible bollocks as much as you like....it's the Corbyn way.


Students are still waiting for him to get rid of their debts for them. As intimated in their election campaign. Oh, I forgot. That promise changed to an ambition when the old Trot realised he had made a promise impossible to honour. As you say, if you ain't the ones with your vitals in the vice you can promise anything. Influence by deceit. Labour's mantra.

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:28 pm 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Jeremy Corbyn to PM on Brexit

"If you deliver a deal that includes a customs union and no hard border in Ireland, if you protect jobs, people’s rights at work and environmental and consumer standards - then we will support that sensible deal”


That totally unacceptable deal for the EU. Again, no responsibility, so spout impossible bollocks as much as you like....it's the Corbyn way.


Political commentators are looking on that comment as an olive branch of sorts.

I think it also sends a message to the EU of a way forward.

The Norway model is beginning to look the closest model from which to frame your own exit.

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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:27 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Jeremy Corbyn to PM on Brexit

"If you deliver a deal that includes a customs union and no hard border in Ireland, if you protect jobs, people’s rights at work and environmental and consumer standards - then we will support that sensible deal”


That totally unacceptable deal for the EU. Again, no responsibility, so spout impossible bollocks as much as you like....it's the Corbyn way.


Political commentators are looking on that comment as an olive branch of sorts.

I think it also sends a message to the EU of a way forward.

The Norway model is beginning to look the closest model from which to frame your own exit.


No they are not. They all know the Labour conditions for support are impossible

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 Post Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:40 pm 
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]Jeremy Corbyn to PM on Brexit

"If you deliver a deal that includes a customs union and no hard border in Ireland, if you protect jobs, people’s rights at work and environmental and consumer standards - then we will support that sensible deal”[/quote]

That totally unacceptable deal for the EU. Again, no responsibility, so spout impossible bollocks as much as you like....it's the Corbyn way.[/quote]

Political commentators are looking on that comment as an olive branch of sorts.

I think it also sends a message to the EU of a way forward.

The Norway model is beginning to look the closest model from which to frame your own exit.[/quote]

No they are not. They all know the Labour conditions for support are impossible[/quote]

I think Labour will show a greater flexibility than Tories in talks with Barnier.

Consensus politics rather than us against them.

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 Post Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Location: Wolverhampton
knocker knowles wrote:
]Jeremy Corbyn to PM on Brexit

"If you deliver a deal that includes a customs union and no hard border in Ireland, if you protect jobs, people’s rights at work and environmental and consumer standards - then we will support that sensible deal”


That totally unacceptable deal for the EU. Again, no responsibility, so spout impossible bollocks as much as you like....it's the Corbyn way.[/quote]

Political commentators are looking on that comment as an olive branch of sorts.

I think it also sends a message to the EU of a way forward.

The Norway model is beginning to look the closest model from which to frame your own exit.[/quote]

No they are not. They all know the Labour conditions for support are impossible[/quote]

I think Labour will show a greater flexibility than Tories in talks with Barnier.

Consensus politics rather than us against them.[/quote]

You mean doing what the EU tells you to do. That's the Corbyn style of consensus.

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