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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:07 am 
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Can anyone explain to me why anyone would vote for Johnson.

I couldn't explain my thoughts on such people.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:26 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why anyone would vote for Johnson.

I couldn't explain my thoughts on such people.



Because he doesn't support the enemies of this country. He doesn't think the IRA and Islamic terrorists are heroes, and he doesn't want to turn the clock back to the 1970's as a default economic position.

Oh, and when his intelligence service tells him any of the above have committed dreadful acts, he doesn't leap to their defence no matter what, claiming his own country is telling lies about his beloved paymasters at every turn.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:01 pm 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why anyone would vote for Johnson.

I couldn't explain my thoughts on such people.



Because he doesn't support the enemies of this country. He doesn't think the IRA and Islamic terrorists are heroes, and he doesn't want to turn the clock back to the 1970's as a default economic position.

Oh, and when his intelligence service tells him any of the above have committed dreadful acts, he doesn't leap to their defence no matter what, claiming his own country is telling lies about his beloved paymasters at every turn
.


That reply reminds me of trying to eat 5 Jacobs cream crackers at once without a drink,.... you cant say "Fairer than that"

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:02 pm 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why anyone would vote for Johnson.

I couldn't explain my thoughts on such people.



Because he doesn't support the enemies of this country. He doesn't think the IRA and Islamic terrorists are heroes, and he doesn't want to turn the clock back to the 1970's as a default economic position.

Oh, and when his intelligence service tells him any of the above have committed dreadful acts, he doesn't leap to their defence no matter what, claiming his own country is telling lies about his beloved paymasters at every turn.


So you don't know then and wish to continue with childish character assassination of a good man.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:57 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why anyone would vote for Johnson.

I couldn't explain my thoughts on such people.



Because he doesn't support the enemies of this country. He doesn't think the IRA and Islamic terrorists are heroes, and he doesn't want to turn the clock back to the 1970's as a default economic position.

Oh, and when his intelligence service tells him any of the above have committed dreadful acts, he doesn't leap to their defence no matter what, claiming his own country is telling lies about his beloved paymasters at every turn.


So you don't know then and wish to continue with childish character assassination of a good man.


A clever way of deflecting what was actually a clear answer KK.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:53 pm 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why anyone would vote for Johnson.

I couldn't explain my thoughts on such people.



Because he doesn't support the enemies of this country. He doesn't think the IRA and Islamic terrorists are heroes, and he doesn't want to turn the clock back to the 1970's as a default economic position.

Oh, and when his intelligence service tells him any of the above have committed dreadful acts, he doesn't leap to their defence no matter what, claiming his own country is telling lies about his beloved paymasters at every turn.


Maybe you could outline the qualities and type of policies Johnson can bring to the role.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:10 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:

Maybe you could outline the qualities and type of policies Johnson can bring to the role.


It is interesting that you ask such a question because when others on here ask you similar in relation to your comments you almost invariably ignore, or evade them.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:33 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why anyone would vote for Johnson.

I couldn't explain my thoughts on such people.



Because he doesn't support the enemies of this country. He doesn't think the IRA and Islamic terrorists are heroes, and he doesn't want to turn the clock back to the 1970's as a default economic position.

Oh, and when his intelligence service tells him any of the above have committed dreadful acts, he doesn't leap to their defence no matter what, claiming his own country is telling lies about his beloved paymasters at every turn.


Maybe you could outline the qualities and type of policies Johnson can bring to the role.


I guess we find ourselves in a situation where we just hope Johnson doesn't screw up the country as much as many anticipate.
People who would vote for this bloke saying more about themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:23 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:

People who would vote for this bloke saying more about themselves[/color].


As do those who vote for others such as Corbyn of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:14 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why anyone would vote for Johnson.

I couldn't explain my thoughts on such people.



Because he doesn't support the enemies of this country. He doesn't think the IRA and Islamic terrorists are heroes, and he doesn't want to turn the clock back to the 1970's as a default economic position.

Oh, and when his intelligence service tells him any of the above have committed dreadful acts, he doesn't leap to their defence no matter what, claiming his own country is telling lies about his beloved paymasters at every turn.


Maybe you could outline the qualities and type of policies Johnson can bring to the role.


Still waiting on this one

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:55 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
[
Still waiting on this one


Don't worry. I'm still waiting for dozens from you.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:57 am 
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Rory Stewart in No 10 boost after receiving David Lidington's backing

Gove says it was a mistake to trigger Article 50 "without a plan"

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:41 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Rory Stewart in No 10 boost after receiving David Lidington's backing

Gove says it was a mistake to trigger Article 50 "without a plan"



Gove struggling to reinvent himself every week as each clique within the party goes Boris, and he has to try with all the others to soak up what's left.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:48 am 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Rory Stewart in No 10 boost after receiving David Lidington's backing

Gove says it was a mistake to trigger Article 50 "without a plan"



Gove struggling to reinvent himself every week as each clique within the party goes Boris, and he has to try with all the others to soak up what's left.


Was Gove right, was it a mistake to trigger Article 50 without having a plan?

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:54 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Rory Stewart in No 10 boost after receiving David Lidington's backing

Gove says it was a mistake to trigger Article 50 "without a plan"



Gove struggling to reinvent himself every week as each clique within the party goes Boris, and he has to try with all the others to soak up what's left.


Was Gove right, was it a mistake to trigger Article 50 without having a plan?


Plenty of time for a plan, if the people in charge of putting one together had the will to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:00 am 
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"]Rory Stewart in No 10 boost after receiving David Lidington's backing

Gove says it was a mistake to trigger Article 50 "without a plan"[/quote]


Gove struggling to reinvent himself every week as each clique within the party goes Boris, and he has to try with all the others to soak up what's left.[/quote]

Was Gove right, was it a mistake to trigger Article 50 without having a plan?[/quote]

Plenty of time for a plan, if the people in charge of putting one together had the will to do it.[/quote]

On the outset did the government look at all options before going down a route that led to failure.
I don't think so, that to me seems a lack of intellect rather than a lack of will.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:24 am 
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Boris could get >150 votes today and word is he’s lending at least 15 MPs to Jeremy Hunt who he regards as a safe, low-energy opponent.

Fraser Nelson.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:37 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Boris could get >150 votes today and word is he’s lending at least 15 MPs to Jeremy Hunt who he regards as a safe, low-energy opponent.

Fraser Nelson.



Looks almost as fixed as the Peterborough Bi-Election.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:15 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Rory Stewart in No 10 boost after receiving David Lidington's backing

Gove says it was a mistake to trigger Article 50 "without a plan"



Gove struggling to reinvent himself every week as each clique within the party goes Boris, and he has to try with all the others to soak up what's left.


Was Gove right, was it a mistake to trigger Article 50 without having a plan?


Obviously and it put the UK in a terrible negotiating position from the very start. How can you achieve an optimal outcome when you have no clear vision of what that outcome is meant to look like?

Not that that prevented Corbyn et al from voting to trigger article 50 immediately... but if it's a vote winner why not... it's all about chasing votes rather than the best for the long-term future of our country for most of these MPs.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:36 am 
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There was an obligation by the opposition to follow suit, its a democratic party.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:29 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
There was an obligation by the opposition to follow suit, its a democratic party.


The opposition has an obligation to follow the government? That's a new one on me...

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:18 am 
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shropswolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
There was an obligation by the opposition to follow suit, its a democratic party.


The opposition has an obligation to follow the government? That's a new one on me...


Labour as a democratic party could not have ignored the ref vote.

It could at that point place conditions on the negotiations as to what its MPs would accept for the people it represents.

The current impasse is because the far right extremists within the Conservative party partly control the narrative.
Still frightened of Farage stealing their voters.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:27 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
There was an obligation by the opposition to follow suit, its a democratic party.


The opposition has an obligation to follow the government? That's a new one on me...


The Labour Party members have voted overwhelming for a second referendom. Why if you are so democratic was this not front and center in you're manifesto? Why in the Northern Brexit supporting constituencies, has not the sitting Labour MPs had the moral courage to tell their electorate that they no longer support their wishes?

Labour as a democratic party could not have ignored the ref vote.

It could at that point place conditions on the negotiations as to what its MPs would accept for the people it represents.

The current impasse is because the far right extremists within the Conservative party partly control the narrative.
Still frightened of Farage stealing their voters.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:36 am 
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"]There was an obligation by the opposition to follow suit, its a democratic party.[/quote]

The opposition has an obligation to follow the government? That's a new one on me...[/quote]

The Labour Party members have voted overwhelming for a second referendom. Why if you are so democratic was this not front and center in you're manifesto? Why in the Northern Brexit supporting constituencies, has not the sitting Labour MPs had the moral courage to tell their electorate that they no longer support their wishes?

Labour as a democratic party could not have ignored the ref vote.

It could at that point place conditions on the negotiations as to what its MPs would accept for the people it represents.

The current impasse is because the far right extremists within the Conservative party partly control the narrative.
Still frightened of Farage stealing their voters.[/quote][/quote]

The Westminster bubble continues to ignore the reasons many people wanted out.
The North and Midlands had no vote over such things as Freedom of movement.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:59 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
There was an obligation by the opposition to follow suit, its a democratic party.


The opposition has an obligation to follow the government? That's a new one on me...


Labour as a democratic party could not have ignored the ref vote.



Respecting the referendum and triggering Article 50 before you have formed a clear plan are two entirely different things.

The UK set the clock running without any clarity of what it really wanted to achieve and has paid the price with the muddled negotiations and impasse in Parliament.

Labour helped facilitate these conditions that have crippled the country by failing to act as an opposition party which holds the government to account until the negotiations were all but completed, by which time the UK had maneouvred itself into a cul-de-sac.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:17 am 
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Labour's position on this constantly changes as ideas come in from various parties on how they can grab power. That is all they care about. Personally, this is understandable. That's what politicians do, always have, always will.

The Tory leadership debacle is no different. Candidates lying through their teeth, trying to grab the ultimate job.

The difference for me will always be what we are left with when the dust settles. Not happy with either, but I'd take another bout of Middle England, before Venezuela any day of the week.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:01 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
"]There was an obligation by the opposition to follow suit, its a democratic party.


The opposition has an obligation to follow the government? That's a new one on me...[/quote]

The Labour Party members have voted overwhelming for a second referendom. Why if you are so democratic was this not front and center in you're manifesto? Why in the Northern Brexit supporting constituencies, has not the sitting Labour MPs had the moral courage to tell their electorate that they no longer support their wishes?

Labour as a democratic party could not have ignored the ref vote.

It could at that point place conditions on the negotiations as to what its MPs would accept for the people it represents.

The current impasse is because the far right extremists within the Conservative party partly control the narrative.
Still frightened of Farage stealing their voters.[/quote][/quote]

The Westminster bubble continues to ignore the reasons many people wanted out.
The North and Midlands had no vote over such things as Freedom of movement.[/quote]

The current impasse is due to the remainers in the Tory Party ably aided and abetted by a duplicitous Labour party.

There are obv. many MPs in the Labour party that support Brexit far more than they have been allowed to do by their democratic party- against the wishes of their consituents- but as long as its members are happy that's good enough.

In fact some will want a no deal - but lets ignore for now that shall we.

I don't quite understand your last point - but if you are saying those in the North & the Midlands didn't have FoM as a reason for voting out then I very much fear you are mistaken.

As for Tom Watson 'speech' on a second referendum.. I have never heard such a load of codswallop in my life the 'patriotic' rhetoric he spewed would- if Farage had uttered it - have been derided & ridiculed ad infinitum by you & the Isllington lot- he would have been called all the little Englanders under the sun.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:10 am 
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davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
"]There was an obligation by the opposition to follow suit, its a democratic party.


The opposition has an obligation to follow the government? That's a new one on me...


The Labour Party members have voted overwhelming for a second referendom. Why if you are so democratic was this not front and center in you're manifesto? Why in the Northern Brexit supporting constituencies, has not the sitting Labour MPs had the moral courage to tell their electorate that they no longer support their wishes?

Labour as a democratic party could not have ignored the ref vote.

It could at that point place conditions on the negotiations as to what its MPs would accept for the people it represents.

The current impasse is because the far right extremists within the Conservative party partly control the narrative.
Still frightened of Farage stealing their voters.[/quote][/quote]

The Westminster bubble continues to ignore the reasons many people wanted out.
The North and Midlands had no vote over such things as Freedom of movement.[/quote]

The current impasse is due to the remainers in the Tory Party ably aided and abetted by a duplicitous Labour party.

There are obv. many MPs in the Labour party that support Brexit far more than they have been allowed to do by their democratic party- against the wishes of their consituents- but as long as its members are happy that's good enough.

In fact some will want a no deal - but lets ignore for now that shall we.

I don't quite understand your last point - but if you are saying those in the North & the Midlands didn't have FoM as a reason for voting out then I very much fear you are mistaken.

As for Tom Watson 'speech' on a second referendum.. I have never heard such a load of codswallop in my life the 'patriotic' rhetoric he spewed would- if Farage had uttered it - have been derided & ridiculed ad infinitum by you & the Isllington lot- he would have been called all the little Englanders under the sun.[/quote]

It is not a "far right" thinking, to wish to leave the EU. Ask the Northern Labour voters if they consider themselves to be "far right".

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:11 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
I would be interested to know what B. Johnsons strengths are?


Entertaining. Better Mayor of London than Sadiq Khan has been. I suspect he will in the end disappoint and in due the course the Conservative Party will deservedly implode, along with the Labour Party.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:22 am 
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THE BIG BAD WOLF wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
I would be interested to know what B. Johnsons strengths are?


Entertaining. Better Mayor of London than Sadiq Khan has been. I suspect he will in the end disappoint and in due the course the Conservative Party will deservedly implode, along with the Labour Party.


Yep, politics in the UK on the way to follow the German model of coalition after coalition. That results in populist politics, and governance by consensus. Never works. Difficult decisions on many issues need addressing in this country, hard enough getting anything through our self-interested parliament as it is, without an even more, untidy bunch with constantly conflicting views, actually in charge.

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