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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:03 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
It’s not hard.

Vote Conservative if you think you’re being deprived of the life you think you deserve by people who have even less than you do.

Don’t vote Conservative if you think you’re being deprived of the life you deserve by people who already have way, way more than you do.

James O'Brien.

Is he right?


The life you get according to O'Brien, does not have to be worked for, it should just be handed to you on a plate paid for by other people's efforts.

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:22 pm 
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Personally I don;t think ANYONE is depriving me of the life I deserve. I think I have the life that I have forged for myself, partly through my reasonable intellect, and partly through the parents I had and the upbringing & values they instilled in me, and partly through my personality (which is probably a consequence of the first two), and partly through my own efforts.

If I am not where I think I should be, doing what I think I deserve to be, then I am afraid it is nearly all my own fait, and I should not look to blame anyone else.

That said, I DO think there ARE people who are extremely unlucky, and are born with some incredible obstacles to surmount. They deserve our fulsome support. But they are relatively few in number, and nowhere near the huge numbers being quoted by some as 'in poverty'.

We need to take responsibility for our own destiny and not seek to 'demand' everything from 'the state' (i.e. the taxpayer!)

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:38 pm 
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I believe that the Tories will piss the election creating a majority of 60 plus.

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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:44 pm 
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Rozza wrote:
I believe that the Tories will piss the election creating a majority of 60 plus.


The establishment having created a one horse race suggests that number could be higher.

Maybe closer to 160.

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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:22 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Rozza wrote:
I believe that the Tories will piss the election creating a majority of 60 plus.


The establishment having created a one horse race suggests that number could be higher.

Maybe closer to 160.


The establishment aint got a vote, individuals do.

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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:41 am 
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Rozza wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Rozza wrote:
I believe that the Tories will piss the election creating a majority of 60 plus.


The establishment having created a one horse race suggests that number could be higher.

Maybe closer to 160.


The establishment aint got a vote, individuals do.


In the year 2019 in the UK you would win the debate with those individuals.

You prove my point.

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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:38 pm 
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I think that a lot of folk have not yet made up their minds and I have a gut feeling that we are headed for a hung Parliament. This will be far closer and tighter than many are leading us to believe.

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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:05 pm 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
I think that a lot of folk have not yet made up their minds and I have a gut feeling that we are headed for a hung Parliament. This will be far closer and tighter than many are leading us to believe.


Jesus Christ I hope not - Recent Labour gains can only have been due to Campaign mismanagement by the Torys (again) ...oh and perhaps Swinsons charisma.

How can people still not have made up their minds aftyer all this time .

More likely they know what the want to vote for ...but just can't & won't bring themselves to do it on the day ...now that I can believe.

If we get a hung parliament I really dread the next 12 months-surely the people aren't that stupid....are they ?


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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:36 pm 
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Thinking objectively a hung parliament is probably whats best for the nation, it may help people settle down a little, stop raging, and start listening to other views.

A time when cross party talks thought more about the nations needs rather than party politics.

Vote tactically to keep the Tories out.

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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:43 pm 
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Fifteen to twenty seat majority.

Currency markets pricing in a Con victory.

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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:22 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Thinking objectively a hung parliament is probably whats best for the nation, it may help people settle down a little, stop raging, and start listening to other views.

A time when cross party talks thought more about the nations needs rather than party politics.

Vote tactically to keep the Tories out.


Nice try Knocker.

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:14 am 
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And I wonder how many die-hard Labour voters have been less than candid with pollsters, and are actually going to vote Tory when in the quiet of the ballot box - just to get Brexit off the bloody agenda!

One may or may not agree with it, but nearly EVERYONE wants the thing just to go away. Yes - the trade deals may take years to sort, but they happen behind closed doors, and the world just keeps on turning whilst they are sorted.

But how will the weather affect things? Momentum will drag people off sick-beds to vote. Hopefully the Tory ageing core will have already sent in their postal votes and won;t have to brave the dreadful weather forecast for Thursday..... We will see...!!!!

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:16 am 
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But PLEASE go out and vote. Whichever side you are on, exercise your democratic right. There are billions in the world who get NO chance to decide on who rules them.

We owe it to the world - and all those who fought for universal suffrage in this country - to at least VOTE!

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:21 am 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
But PLEASE go out and vote. Whichever side you are on, exercise your democratic right. There are billions in the world who get NO chance to decide on who rules them.

We owe it to the world - and all those who fought for universal suffrage in this country - to at least VOTE!


If only we did live in a democracy.

Its a SHAM.

About as relevant as a vote in Russia.

As everyone plays their role.

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:10 pm 
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https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... last-stand

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:16 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/12/tory-rebel-s-last-stand


He is just another politician who thinks he knows better than his electorate, dull really. His constituency voted to leave in 2016, yet he steadfastly ignored his electorate and voted remain. I have no problems with all similar MP's who did this to get chucked out of their seat and or their party.

BREXIT would have been sorted years ago if all MP's voted the way their electorate decided regardless of personal preference.

KK, if Labour, by some miracle, win this election, you will no doubt call it the best democratic decision ever made in our glorious democracy, yam boring now mate.

I have never known an election in my lifetime where party policies and provenance have been usurped by personality.
Whatever happens today, whatever the outcome, we will have a privileged buffoon at the head of our government, sad really.

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:30 pm 
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Jeremy Corbyn is unelectable


He will not answer the question - should we Leave or should we Remain. For someone saying he should be Prime Minister and to lead the country to not answer that question on the biggest issue of the past 3 years whichever side of that debate you are on is unforgivable and renders him a coward or an incompetent tent but unfit for office either way

He has wilfully fostered a culture of anti Semitism in his party

For all his faults Boris is the better man and the better candidate for Prime Minister


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:46 pm 
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raggedwolf wrote:
Jeremy Corbyn is unelectable


For all his faults Boris is the better man and the better candidate for Prime Minister


80-90 majority

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:11 am 
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So - it is over.

And the working man and working classes in the towns across the whole country has REJECTED the neo-marxist 1970s nonsense of the London Labour mafia (just look at all the leading lights - Corby, McDonnell, Abbott, etc etc etc - all London-based).

The good working class folk of Burnley, Leigh, Workington, Stoke, West Bromwich, Wolverhampton, etc etc etc have given Labour their worst result since 1935. If that isn;t a message I don't know what is.

In the last 50 - FIFTY - years, the only Labour politician to win an election has been Tony Blair - who almost the entire Labour movement now regards as a pariah!

Labour MUST quickly (not a 10 year internal bicker and navel-gazing) recognise that the nonsense of Momentum will NEVER get them into a position to enact the policies that they espouse. They can ONLY win if they:
1. re-connect with the Midlands and Northern towns that they have simply ignored
2. elect a leader who has charisma and can appeal to the 'middle ground' so beloved of Blair
3. ditch their out-dated far-left ideologies and their belief that a 'big state' can provide for everyone; it should provide for all IN NEED

The next few months are CRUCIAL to the survival of the party. It should be grateful that the Lib Dems elected as leader someone who turned out to be a liability, otherwise Labour's losses would have been even greater.

I will not gloat, as I think ANY government needs a strong opposition to hold it to account. What a shame that the nonsense that is the SNP will do that, not the Labour party. Sturgeon is a real threat to the nation. At least she admitted not all SNP voters would vote for independence. And the Scottish Labour guy (down to a SINGLE seat - IN SCOTLAND!!!) was correct in saying that in Scotland, SNP's had NOT been arguing for independence, or even a referendum, but just 'VOTE SNP TO STOP BORIS'.

The next 12 months will be fascinating. As Labour gazes inwards, the Tories an SNP are going to have to resolve the Scottish issue. I suspect Boris will be forced to accept a referendum, or risk losing even more support in Scotland next time.

Oh well... time for bed!

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:19 am 
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I would like to believe the seventies are now firmly left in the history books, but they are not. The country, and democracy needs a strong Labour Party, we don't have one.
Momentum still pull the strings, their unelectable communist stance in their eye's, still alive, as old, true Labour supporters will still be hounded out.
Joy incarnate to see the result. Sadness to know Labour will still Look backwards rather than move with the 21st century.

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:38 am 
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Keir Starmer, Jess Phillips, John Bercow, Gina Miller, George Soros, Dominic Grieve, that judge Hale woman are you listening? Your Boys took one hell of a beating.

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:50 am 
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THE BIG BAD WOLF wrote:
Keir Starmer, Jess Phillips, John Bercow, Gina Miller, George Soros, Dominic Grieve, that judge Hale woman are you listening? Your Boys took one hell of a beating.


You missed the most startling ejection mate, Dennis Skinner, the Beast of Bolsover kicked out, this is a place which readily boasted that any Conservative candidate was lucky to escape being debagged and ran out of town.
I hope Jezza and Di look at Mr Skinner when he becomes father of the house soon and apologise profusely for personally destroying and dismantling his life long endeavours.

Shocking but predictable total bollocks of a party they have become.

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:46 am 
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Result.


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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:51 am 
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davejonesears wrote:
Result.



Word

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:33 pm 
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A rout in the end, no close call that I imagined it would be. I think that the result was heavily influenced by Labour Leavers who deserted their party for once to vote for something their party would not consider. Also, with the Brexit Party diluted, it left the Tories with a clear field to run at and they sure did. Whatever your colours it is good to have some certainty now with the obstructing opposition mobs at Parliament getting well stuffed into oblivion and business and the markets ( and maybe also the EU) will feel far better now that a clear and decisive vote has been resulted. Labour has to rid itself of Corbyn, McDonnell, McCluskey and Momentum to be able to regroup and slowly evolve into a proper socialist Party once again, they have been an outdated model for a few years now and do not represent the working man at all. Thank God it is all over, get Brexit finalised asap ( the trade deals will take far longer though and there will be hiccoughs) and we can hopefully all get back to something resembling normality.

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:51 am 
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My biggest surprise was that the Lib Dem number crunchers must have got those numbers wrong for a very long time.
That or they did a back room deal which saw them sell out once more.

From giving Johnson the numbers to enable a December 2019 General Election to thinking a Revoke ticket would win seats.

What were they doing, what was their plan?

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:52 pm 
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The only Party that had a plan, like it or loathe it, was the Tory Party. All other opposition parties were fixated upon "STOP BORIS, STOP BREXIT, SECOND REFERENDUM" and nothing else. They wanted to maintain the paralysis of parliament ad infinitum. The people had had enough of the last two or three years of blocking and obfuscation, they voted for the only party that would honour the EU referendum result and try to move forward and not mark time on everything. They now have the massive responsibility to try and live up to some of their aims, not all will get through or succeed but progress has to be made after three wasted years.

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:54 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Labour MUST quickly (not a 10 year internal bicker and navel-gazing) recognise that the nonsense of Momentum will NEVER get them into a position to enact the policies that they espouse. They can ONLY win if they:
1. re-connect with the Midlands and Northern towns that they have simply ignored
2. elect a leader who has charisma and can appeal to the 'middle ground' so beloved of Blair
3. ditch their out-dated far-left ideologies and their belief that a 'big state' can provide for everyone; it should provide for all IN NEED



You will note that McDonnell says that they won the policy argument but were defeated by Brexit. They also blame the "biased" media and Tory dirty tricks (although I noticed one or two by them too). They do not appear to want to learn from it which I find sad. My mind goes back to the Unite sponsored coup which led to Ed Miliband usurping his brother and I wonder if a more centrist party could have walloped the "untrustworthy buffoon" whilst retaining the ethos of social justice which to my mind is the essence of the Labour party.

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:02 pm 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
The only Party that had a plan, like it or loathe it, was the Tory Party. All other opposition parties were fixated upon "STOP BORIS, STOP BREXIT, SECOND REFERENDUM" and nothing else. They wanted to maintain the paralysis of parliament ad infinitum. The people had had enough of the last two or three years of blocking and obfuscation, they voted for the only party that would honour the EU referendum result and try to move forward and not mark time on everything. They now have the massive responsibility to try and live up to some of their aims, not all will get through or succeed but progress has to be made after three wasted years.


Indeed and I hope Boris Johnson remembers his pledge not to let down those who voted for him when they would not normally do so by developing some thoughtful policies to assist people and areas which were hard hit by austerity measures.

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:08 pm 
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In the last year or so, on my football ground hopping visits, I have seen the towns of Workington, Barrow, Carlisle, Fleetwood, Morecambe, Blackpool to name a few Northern places and virtually all of them are in desperate need of urgent revitalisation and investment for the people there who: " feel abandoned by Governments". Johnson really does need to get out up there and do some research and witness first hand evidence of how bad things have become in those areas. I truly hope that he does so.

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