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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:14 pm 
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Whoever it is I sincerely hope that when British citizens get murdered in a British city by a foreign power they at least acknowledge who was to blame when their own security services tell them who it was.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:37 pm 
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Rozza wrote:
Whoever it is I sincerely hope that when British citizens get murdered in a British city by a foreign power they at least acknowledge who was to blame when their own security services tell them who it was.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbr1HmrplN0

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:44 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Rozza wrote:
Whoever it is I sincerely hope that when British citizens get murdered in a British city by a foreign power they at least acknowledge who was to blame when their own security services tell them who it was.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbr1HmrplN0


Carl Beech.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:01 am 
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Rozza wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Rozza wrote:
Whoever it is I sincerely hope that when British citizens get murdered in a British city by a foreign power they at least acknowledge who was to blame when their own security services tell them who it was.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbr1HmrplN0


Carl Beech.



More about gaining the full facts before racing to instant conclusions.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:10 am 
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The USA had nothing to do with the recent killing of the Iranian general innit comrade.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:21 am 
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Rozza wrote:
The USA had nothing to do with the recent killing of the Iranian general innit comrade.



Exactly. Two American tourists playing with their Chrizzy prezzy drones, which went rogue when the batteries died. Simple init.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:52 am 
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suiging wrote:
Rozza wrote:
The USA had nothing to do with the recent killing of the Iranian general innit comrade.





Exactly. Two American tourists playing with their Chrizzy prezzy drones, which went rogue when the batteries died. Simple init.


All invention by the Jewish media an that.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:02 am 
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Tell you what KK, post on here the candidate who talks about Commerce. Post the candidate who discusses increasing profitability to secure jobs in this challenging world. The candidate who supports freedom of speech for all. By all, I mean everybody, including white, ageing males. The candidate who will without fear or favour uphold the law as written, not the law dreamt up in the parlours of Islington. The candidate who doesn't pretend to be something they're not, trying to be working class when coming from a home where work was for someone else while they went to Uni/Poly supported royally by Daddy.
A candidate who thinks Lily Allen and Owen Jones, are self-serving twats and in no way represent their core voters. A candidate who understands the term 'National Defence"

And finally, a candidate who has Labour values and does not want to drag the world back to a time of Scargil, realising that with globalisation, multi-nationals will not accept the likes of Buttler, Abbott, or Wrong-Daily telling them how to run a business when they can't even put their own shoes on.

Find that candidate, and I'll support him/her/it, with you.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:05 am 
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Rozza wrote:
suiging wrote:
Rozza wrote:
The USA had nothing to do with the recent killing of the Iranian general innit comrade.





Exactly. Two American tourists playing with their Chrizzy prezzy drones, which went rogue when the batteries died. Simple init.


All invention by the Jewish media an that.


And Thatcher

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:16 pm 
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suiging wrote:
Rozza wrote:
The USA had nothing to do with the recent killing of the Iranian general innit comrade.



Exactly. Two American tourists playing with their Chrizzy prezzy drones, which went rogue when the batteries died. Simple init.


Interesting , I'm not sure Trump got this one right , however he may have done -or is it too little too late.
Assisnations by drones are a relatively new phenomina - and I have to say I'm a little uneasy with it as there is nearly always "collateral damage".

Maybe Milliband would have been better to have authorised the SAS to kill him when they were in place to do so.

Appeasement never really works with these sorts of people does it- he shoud have realised that .
It woudl have prevented a lot of deaths (both US AND UK) and would surely have been the better option rather than deciding to try and talk...look kwhere that got us.

That's the problem isn't it.
Leadership is sometime about having to make decisions that morally you may not agree with for the 'greater good'.


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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:51 pm 
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suiging wrote:
Tell you what KK, post on here the candidate who talks about Commerce. Post the candidate who discusses increasing profitability to secure jobs in this challenging world. The candidate who supports freedom of speech for all. By all, I mean everybody, including white, ageing males. The candidate who will without fear or favour uphold the law as written, not the law dreamt up in the parlours of Islington. The candidate who doesn't pretend to be something they're not, trying to be working class when coming from a home where work was for someone else while they went to Uni/Poly supported royally by Daddy.
A candidate who thinks Lily Allen and Owen Jones, are self-serving twats and in no way represent their core voters. A candidate who understands the term 'National Defence"

And finally, a candidate who has Labour values and does not want to drag the world back to a time of Scargil, realising that with globalisation, multi-nationals will not accept the likes of Buttler, Abbott, or Wrong-Daily telling them how to run a business when they can't even put their own shoes on.

Find that candidate, and I'll support him/her/it, with you.


Supporters of the Labour party have to change that narrative where they allow the media to move it onto the individual rather than the policy.
The members being at odds with many headline news Labour and ex Labour Tory lite MPs.
They like the socialist policies.
Listening to RLB on Radio 4 this morning it was much the same as before with Labour accepting constant interruptions rather than holding firm on their own beliefs going forward.
They have to find ways of spreading the core message without allowing themselves to be forced on the defensive through others trying to pigeon hole them as such and such.
There needs to be a harder edge and a complete strategy rethink.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:12 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
suiging wrote:
Tell you what KK, post on here the candidate who talks about Commerce. Post the candidate who discusses increasing profitability to secure jobs in this challenging world. The candidate who supports freedom of speech for all. By all, I mean everybody, including white, ageing males. The candidate who will without fear or favour uphold the law as written, not the law dreamt up in the parlours of Islington. The candidate who doesn't pretend to be something they're not, trying to be working class when coming from a home where work was for someone else while they went to Uni/Poly supported royally by Daddy.
A candidate who thinks Lily Allen and Owen Jones, are self-serving twats and in no way represent their core voters. A candidate who understands the term 'National Defence"

And finally, a candidate who has Labour values and does not want to drag the world back to a time of Scargil, realising that with globalisation, multi-nationals will not accept the likes of Buttler, Abbott, or Wrong-Daily telling them how to run a business when they can't even put their own shoes on.

Find that candidate, and I'll support him/her/it, with you.


Supporters of the Labour party have to change that narrative where they allow the media to move it onto the individual rather than the policy.
The members being at odds with many headline news Labour and ex Labour Tory lite MPs.
They like the socialist policies.
Listening to RLB on Radio 4 this morning it was much the same as before with Labour accepting constant interruptions rather than holding firm on their own beliefs going forward.
They have to find ways of spreading the core message without allowing themselves to be forced on the defensive through others trying to pigeon hole them as such and such.
There needs to be a harder edge and a complete strategy rethink.


Still in denial I see. It was the media. It was a false portrayal of fine individuals. Our policies were popular. Keep it up, you'll never see power in our lifetimes.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:52 pm 
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Miss Wrong-Daily has shown the sort of leadership and intellect that will sweep her to victory (of course, not in a General Election).

Giving her considered opinion that Corbyn's performance was a 10/10, is sure to bring back the excitement to Oldham. Showing such an understanding of the views of Labour's core voters (in Islington) a sure winner.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:01 pm 
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At least KK thinks there needs to be 'a complete strategy re-think'.

Well - that would be a start. How about ditching some failed policy ideas too? Or is the message that 'the policies were popular, we were just mis-represented by the media' going to hold sway? If so, I fear for the future of the party. Lucky for them the Lib Dems have imploded!

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:59 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
At least KK thinks there needs to be 'a complete strategy re-think'.

Well - that would be a start. How about ditching some failed policy ideas too? Or is the message that 'the policies were popular, we were just mis-represented by the media' going to hold sway? If so, I fear for the future of the party. Lucky for them the Lib Dems have imploded!



Knocker's strategy rethink though is about finding ways to stop presenters from being biased against labour MP's. I believe that he is deluded in that opinion anyway and simply sees and hears what he is looking for rather than what is actually happening so, in my opinion, any strategic rethink on that issue will have no impact whatsoever.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:20 am 
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Left back wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:
At least KK thinks there needs to be 'a complete strategy re-think'.

Well - that would be a start. How about ditching some failed policy ideas too? Or is the message that 'the policies were popular, we were just mis-represented by the media' going to hold sway? If so, I fear for the future of the party. Lucky for them the Lib Dems have imploded!



Knocker's strategy rethink though is about finding ways to stop presenters from being biased against labour MP's. I believe that he is deluded in that opinion anyway and simply sees and hears what he is looking for rather than what is actually happening so, in my opinion, any strategic rethink on that issue will have no impact whatsoever.


https://youtu.be/d0DQGys7cMs

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:28 pm 
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Whoever gets the Labour Leader position, they'll be farked anyway with who is running. When you look at the depth and quality of the candidates, none are fit for the job. When you see people like Andy Burnham and Alan Johnson no longer about in mainstream politics as Labour MP's, there's realistically nobody else around to represent the millions of Labour voters who deserve far better than what they have had these last few years in Miliband and Corbyn. The party is in deep turmoil and unless it somehow manages to disengage itself from Momentum and also that unkempt, unshaven gasbag McCluskey, it will spend years in the wilderness.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:06 pm 
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Reverting to my role as ‘Wolf pedant’ it should be “none IS fit to lead the party”!

One big union came out today for Sir Kier; does that help or hinder his bid?

He will be disastrous !! Perhaps a competent deputy, but NOT a leader. Lacks charisma & empathy; always looks like a rabbit caught in headlights.

For me the only one who could land effective blows on Boris is Jess Phillips. Don’t agree with her on many issues but she sincerely believes what she says and is feisty. PMQs would not be dull.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:28 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Reverting to my role as ‘Wolf pedant’ it should be “none IS fit to lead the party”!

One big union came out today for Sir Kier; does that help or hinder his bid?

He will be disastrous !! Perhaps a competent deputy, but NOT a leader. Lacks charisma & empathy; always looks like a rabbit caught in headlights.

For me the only one who could land effective blows on Boris is Jess Phillips. Don’t agree with her on many issues but she sincerely believes what she says and is feisty. PMQs would not be dull.


Jess Phillips?...yeah she'll do it , she'll repair the damage done by Brexit ..by rejoining the EU - that will do it.
She's the same as Corbyn...she's even following the same mantra...evading the question until she gets in ...with her "lets see shall we"...full of shit.


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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:43 am 
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Keir was in charge of the CPS. He oversaw their most impotent and insipid period that I can remember over more than two decades. He did absolutely nothing to reverse the paucity of resources or response to government cuts to the service, other than kneel before the Queen of course, cor see knocker liking that!!

Next please.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:23 am 
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The Labour leadership contest is much like the application process to become the new manager of Bury FC.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:36 pm 
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Doesn't matter how good your intentions or how good your policy if you have a shite sales team.

Of the seven contenders the four woman are very weak options.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:42 pm 
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Rozza wrote:
Keir was in charge of the CPS. He oversaw their most impotent and insipid period that I can remember over more than two decades. He did absolutely nothing to reverse the paucity of resources or response to government cuts to the service, other than kneel before the Queen of course, cor see knocker liking that!!

Next please.


Taking us full circle to Carl Beech with Starmer all for the way courts looked on and prosecuted according to victims statements.
Watson and Starmer gullible in the extreme. He didn't fare very well in the Rebecca Brooks case which was badly represented.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:21 am 
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interesting article in The Guardian today (I think - it might have been Times - unusually I had time to read both - on a train!) which made the point that the Labour Party needs to decide if it is voting for a Leader of the Opposition to hold Boris & co to account, or a future PM (minimum 5 years down the line). It made the point that the person best suited to be PM may well not be the person to best lead Opposition.

Could/should Labour be considering this point?
Who do people think would make best opponent to Boris for next 4-5 years?
Who do people think would make the best Labour PM in 5 years?
And if different, when do you make the change?

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:13 am 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
interesting article in The Guardian today (I think - it might have been Times - unusually I had time to read both - on a train!) which made the point that the Labour Party needs to decide if it is voting for a Leader of the Opposition to hold Boris & co to account, or a future PM (minimum 5 years down the line). It made the point that the person best suited to be PM may well not be the person to best lead Opposition.

Could/should Labour be considering this point?
Who do people think would make best opponent to Boris for next 4-5 years?
Who do people think would make the best Labour PM in 5 years?
And if different, when do you make the change?


A candidate who regains the trust of the 'average' Labour voter, covers all basis. If they are incapable of debate, or of actually listening to what the core-support want of them in Parliament, they will fail in the next election, one follows the other. Dancing around by the like of Jones in the Guardian, with their theories of why they themselves are not popular, is just a smoke screen to hide the simple truth that the new 'Islington Man/Woman" can be as eloquent as they wish in the House, but they will win bugger all. With the Tory majority as it is, winning back the electorate is the only thing that will worry the Tory elite.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:12 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
interesting article in The Guardian today (I think - it might have been Times - unusually I had time to read both - on a train!) which made the point that the Labour Party needs to decide if it is voting for a Leader of the Opposition to hold Boris & co to account, or a future PM (minimum 5 years down the line). It made the point that the person best suited to be PM may well not be the person to best lead Opposition.

Could/should Labour be considering this point?
Who do people think would make best opponent to Boris for next 4-5 years?
Who do people think would make the best Labour PM in 5 years?
And if different, when do you make the change?


It has to be looked at through several angles.

Why was Jeremy Corbyn viewed as toxic by many working class folk in the Midlands and up North.
How did that view change between 2017 to 2019
If this view wasn't known, why not?
Why than go into a general election without a huge campaign building up the leader while facing head on the relentless smear campaign.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:29 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:
interesting article in The Guardian today (I think - it might have been Times - unusually I had time to read both - on a train!) which made the point that the Labour Party needs to decide if it is voting for a Leader of the Opposition to hold Boris & co to account, or a future PM (minimum 5 years down the line). It made the point that the person best suited to be PM may well not be the person to best lead Opposition.

Could/should Labour be considering this point?
Who do people think would make best opponent to Boris for next 4-5 years?
Who do people think would make the best Labour PM in 5 years?
And if different, when do you make the change?


It has to be looked at through several angles.

Why was Jeremy Corbyn viewed as toxic by many working class folk in the Midlands and up North.
How did that view change between 2017 to 2019
If this view wasn't known, why not?
Why than go into a general election without a huge campaign building up the leader while facing head on the relentless smear campaign.


It didn't, those dates are your selected ones. He was unelectable in 2015 knocker as this erudite young pup of a poster wrote in 2015...…

I don't know much about Corbyn, I reckon there are millions like me who don't, but he does come across as a right sandal wearing hippy, an appeaser, too old in his views, too lefty, too liberal, he's not really an alternative to the Tories given the current climate. He'd let em all in, give em houses and benefits and when they started blowing us up he would apologise for any offence we have caused and see what he could do to make things better for them

Those sentiments and feelings expressed were WELL before YOU say Mr Murdoch and the Israeli press barons who run all aspects of our countries media so destroyed Jezz :roll: :roll:

I wonder how many Labour voters in the North East and safe Labour seats in general recently still espoused those sentiments nearly FIVE years after that poster did??

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:40 pm 
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Rozza wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:
interesting article in The Guardian today (I think - it might have been Times - unusually I had time to read both - on a train!) which made the point that the Labour Party needs to decide if it is voting for a Leader of the Opposition to hold Boris & co to account, or a future PM (minimum 5 years down the line). It made the point that the person best suited to be PM may well not be the person to best lead Opposition.

Could/should Labour be considering this point?
Who do people think would make best opponent to Boris for next 4-5 years?
Who do people think would make the best Labour PM in 5 years?
And if different, when do you make the change?


It has to be looked at through several angles.

Why was Jeremy Corbyn viewed as toxic by many working class folk in the Midlands and up North.
How did that view change between 2017 to 2019
If this view wasn't known, why not?
Why than go into a general election without a huge campaign building up the leader while facing head on the relentless smear campaign.


It didn't, those dates are your selected ones. He was unelectable in 2015 knocker as this erudite young pup of a poster wrote in 2015...…

I don't know much about Corbyn, I reckon there are millions like me who don't, but he does come across as a right sandal wearing hippy, an appeaser, too old in his views, too lefty, too liberal, he's not really an alternative to the Tories given the current climate. He'd let em all in, give em houses and benefits and when they started blowing us up he would apologise for any offence we have caused and see what he could do to make things better for them

Those sentiments and feelings expressed were WELL before YOU say Mr Murdoch and the Israeli press barons who run all aspects of our countries media so destroyed Jezz :roll: :roll:

I wonder how many Labour voters in the North East and safe Labour seats in general recently still espoused those sentiments nearly FIVE years after that poster did??


Its this lack of self awareness which has to be confronted as they view each contestant for new leader.
The obvious issues with two of the female front bench candidates as an example.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:44 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Why than go into a general election without a huge campaign building up the leader while facing head on the relentless smear campaign.


It is this delusion that Labour need to address if they are to make any headway. Sure the Murdoch press campaigned against Corbyn although, as I have said before, there were many publications in favour of Corbyn as well as social media contributors and I don't believe that the mainstream TV channels were in the get Corbyn camp either (In fact, Channel 4 seemed very much in the get Boris camp to me). However, using the word smear seems totally inappropriate to what was being said. The main issues appear to be "Friends wth Hesbollah", "Paid by Iranian TV", "invited IRA suspect to the Commons soon after the Brighton bombing", "the number of anti semitism complaints", "regularly sides with other countries against UK". All of these things appear to be factual and are not denied by Corbyn so how can they possibly be smears. Blair managed to overcome the "hostile" press for a number of years so clearly it is possible but Corbyn was simply incapable of doing so.

Blaming Brexit and perceived media bias will not change anything, it requires a good look at policies and what will appeal to the average voter WHO IS NOT AS THICK AS YOU LIKE TO THINK. Unless the leadership grasp that they will continue to go nowhere.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:01 am 
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Rozza wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:
interesting article in The Guardian today (I think - it might have been Times - unusually I had time to read both - on a train!) which made the point that the Labour Party needs to decide if it is voting for a Leader of the Opposition to hold Boris & co to account, or a future PM (minimum 5 years down the line). It made the point that the person best suited to be PM may well not be the person to best lead Opposition.

Could/should Labour be considering this point?
Who do people think would make best opponent to Boris for next 4-5 years?
Who do people think would make the best Labour PM in 5 years?
And if different, when do you make the change?


It has to be looked at through several angles.

Why was Jeremy Corbyn viewed as toxic by many working class folk in the Midlands and up North.
How did that view change between 2017 to 2019
If this view wasn't known, why not?
Why than go into a general election without a huge campaign building up the leader while facing head on the relentless smear campaign.


It didn't, those dates are your selected ones. He was unelectable in 2015 knocker as this erudite young pup of a poster wrote in 2015...…

I don't know much about Corbyn, I reckon there are millions like me who don't, but he does come across as a right sandal wearing hippy, an appeaser, too old in his views, too lefty, too liberal, he's not really an alternative to the Tories given the current climate. He'd let em all in, give em houses and benefits and when they started blowing us up he would apologise for any offence we have caused and see what he could do to make things better for them

Those sentiments and feelings expressed were WELL before YOU say Mr Murdoch and the Israeli press barons who run all aspects of our countries media so destroyed Jezz :roll: :roll:

I wonder how many Labour voters in the North East and safe Labour seats in general recently still espoused those sentiments nearly FIVE years after that poster did??


Thinking back we could look at 2010 with Gordan Brown and his bigot comment, not really understanding why certain views were deeply held.
Many Northern and Midlands communities had lost their sense of worth, had been ignored for decades yet had seen a huge influx of immigrants.
Only to be told they were good for the economy.
Well they didn't feel better off all they saw and this was after 13 years of Labour government was a squeeze on front line services.
It seemed like arse about tit politics which introduced more people into their communities before the infrastructure was in place to cope with them.

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