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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:24 am 
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Tony 'throw open the borders' Blair was as much a Labour politician as Corbyn. However, people voted for him, because even though he was a money grabbing snake, he was not seen in his true light (at the time) by the majority in the heartlands, and he was not a closest, anti-UK, communist.

Until Labour find a true Labour leader, they will never see office again. Why? because as much as the media try to paint him as a Farage clone, Bozza is a centrist, a bloke who actually will insist his government devolve and look at the country as a whole, a big bumbling comfy fool, who will be loved by many. New Communist-Labour, care not a jot for a bloke on Teeside or a woman in Dudley, it's the greater Communist Internationale that matters. They sit around virtue signalling their love of Marx, formulating their plot's to seize power in New Labour's comfort base's - University student union bars, Vegan love-ins, and Islington. The UK voting public, who they treat with disdain, have seen through them - they are doomed.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:47 am 
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Some would say Labour have been doomed since the 1970s when the country fell hook line and sinker for Reaganomics.

It seems Keir Starmer is trying to define this type of politics as a failed experiment.

I agree with him.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:16 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Some would say Labour have been doomed since the 1970s when the country fell hook line and sinker for Reaganomics.

It seems Keir Starmer is trying to define this type of politics as a failed experiment.

I agree with him.


At least he's had a proper job, albeit his time in the DPP was an utter disaster.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:39 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Some would say Labour have been doomed since the 1970s when the country fell hook line and sinker for Reaganomics.


Wilson and his era failed to find the solutions to modernise the country and bring prosperity, which made Thatcherism inevitable.

The current state of the party shows that they have no answers for the 21st century either.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:40 pm 
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suiging wrote:
Tony 'throw open the borders' Blair was as much a Labour politician as Corbyn. However, people voted for him, because even though he was a money grabbing snake, he was not seen in his true light (at the time) by the majority in the heartlands, and he was not a closest, anti-UK, communist.

Until Labour find a true Labour leader, they will never see office again. Why? because as much as the media try to paint him as a Farage clone, Bozza is a centrist, a bloke who actually will insist his government devolve and look at the country as a whole, a big bumbling comfy fool, who will be loved by many. New Communist-Labour, care not a jot for a bloke on Teeside or a woman in Dudley, it's the greater Communist Internationale that matters. They sit around virtue signalling their love of Marx, formulating their plot's to seize power in New Labour's comfort base's - University student union bars, Vegan love-ins, and Islington. The UK voting public, who they treat with disdain, have seen through them - they are doomed.


Love it!

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:43 pm 
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shropswolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Some would say Labour have been doomed since the 1970s when the country fell hook line and sinker for Reaganomics.


Wilson and his era failed to find the solutions to modernise the country and bring prosperity, which made Thatcherism inevitable.

The current state of the party shows that they have no answers for the 21st century either.


But he did recognise the 'white heat of the technological revolution' even if he failed to enact it because of the all-powerful trade unions of the time who demanded workers kept on digging holes and filling them in in perpetuity.... Remember the demarcation disputes? "Ain;t my job to screw in a screw - that a carpenter's job; I'm a plumber..."

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:22 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
But he did recognise the 'white heat of the technological revolution' even if he failed to enact it because of the all-powerful trade unions of the time who demanded workers kept on digging holes and filling them in in perpetuity.... Remember the demarcation disputes? "Ain;t my job to screw in a screw - that a carpenter's job; I'm a plumber..."


That protectionism of Job Roles was rife in the NHS even 10 years ago. Many doctors fought to prevent qualified nurses being able to do things like issuing a repeat prescription.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:19 pm 
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If Starmer gets the gig, he needs to strangle and suffocate Momentum as his first priority, slowly and with ruthlessness. Then, he can get down to making Labour a party of the people once again and not a left wing Marxist cabal. He is the better of a bad bunch for selection. Since December 14th, I have wallowed in the joys of not having to hear the chants of " Ohhh, Jeremy Corbyn" as well as the donkey braying "Stop Brexit" outside of Parliament on TV most days...heaven..!!

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:17 pm 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
If Starmer gets the gig, he needs to strangle and suffocate Momentum as his first priority, slowly and with ruthlessness. Then, he can get down to making Labour a party of the people once again and not a left wing Marxist cabal. He is the better of a bad bunch for selection. Since December 14th, I have wallowed in the joys of not having to hear the chants of " Ohhh, Jeremy Corbyn" As well as the donkey braying "Stop Brexit" outside of Parliament on TV most days...heaven..!!


I thought I'd gone deaf...sheer bliss...the blokes got to get a proper job now...shame :)


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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:15 pm 
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Three horse race.

Starmer, Long-Bailey and Nandy.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:23 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Three horse race.

Starmer, Long-Bailey and Nandy.


Momentum : "Right lads you can vote for Wrong Daily or Wrong Daily. Which one do you want?"

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:58 am 
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suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Three horse race.

Starmer, Long-Bailey and Nandy.


Momentum : "Right lads you can vote for Wrong Daily or Wrong Daily. Which one do you want?"


At least the members are engaged in the process, its not some in house vote as you get with the Tories.

Thats to Labours credit, the leader can come from any side.

With the Tories if you didn't go to the right school your pretty much fucked.

Non of those new Northern Tory MPs will become a member of Cabinet, wrong sort.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:05 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Three horse race.

Starmer, Long-Bailey and Nandy.


Momentum : "Right lads you can vote for Wrong Daily or Wrong Daily. Which one do you want?"


At least the members are engaged in the process, its not some in house vote as you get with the Tories.

Thats to Labours credit, the leader can come from any side.

With the Tories if you didn't go to the right school your pretty much fucked.

Non of those new Northern Tory MPs will become a member of Cabinet, wrong sort.


KK, this was not any form of vote. There was only one bloody candidate. Democratically run Party my arse

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:46 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Three horse race.

Starmer, Long-Bailey and Nandy.


Momentum : "Right lads you can vote for Wrong Daily or Wrong Daily. Which one do you want?"


At least the members are engaged in the process, its not some in house vote as you get with the Tories.

Thats to Labours credit, the leader can come from any side.

With the Tories if you didn't go to the right school your pretty much fucked.

Non of those new Northern Tory MPs will become a member of Cabinet, wrong sort.


Haha - it's the way you tell 'em KK. It seems to me that with Labour if you are not middle class (even though you may have faux working class qualifications such as Long Bailey working in a Porn, er sorry, Pawn shop, before she studied to be a lawyer) then you are pretty much fucked. Only those Labour candidates who have the correct Momentum qualifications will be considered.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:34 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
suiging wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Three horse race.

Starmer, Long-Bailey and Nandy.


Momentum : "Right lads you can vote for Wrong Daily or Wrong Daily. Which one do you want?"


At least the members are engaged in the process, its not some in house vote as you get with the Tories.

Thats to Labours credit, the leader can come from any side.

With the Tories if you didn't go to the right school your pretty much fucked.

Non of those new Northern Tory MPs will become a member of Cabinet, wrong sort.


Errr - Maggie - state grammar school, Major - state again - and neither exactly from 'wealthy & privileged backgrounds'. William Hague - Yorkshire comprehensive.

Seem to have a better record of state education than Labour: Blair - independent school, Corbyn - independent school.... And Ed Miliband had a privileged background (except Marxist professor father insisted he go to a comp. but compensated by having political elite round for meals & evenings... I seem to recall that brother David got very moderate A. levels but still got to Daddy's university - Oxford... Hmmm!

Playing the 'privilege card' is a nonsense. We should judge people on what THEY do and say, not the views and backgrounds of their parents. (But Emily did CHOOSE to hitch to a barrister, and he did CHOOSE to accept a knighthood or whatever.)

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:39 pm 
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Starmer in front, Wrong-Daily 2nd, Nandy 3rd.

I suspect that Nandy has a good chance!

Logic? The Left hate Starmer. The right/centre hate Wrong-Daily.

Phillips not liked by either side, but respected by 'independent thinkers'. Emily - ha ha ha ha!

So I reckon Starmer will win 1st ballot, but will get NO 2nd preferences, and W-D 2nd but get NO 2nd preferences, and Nandy will get loads of 2nd preferences and will come up on the rails as the 'compromise' candidate. She also performed well with Andrew Neill - and essential these days!

Being a woman, from the North, and having a non-Euro-white heritage probably helps too!

My money is on her.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:23 pm 
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shropswolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Some would say Labour have been doomed since the 1970s when the country fell hook line and sinker for Reaganomics.


Wilson and his era failed to find the solutions to modernise the country and bring prosperity, which made Thatcherism inevitable.

The current state of the party shows that they have no answers for the 21st century either.


Wilson was unfortunate with many events prior and during his time.
The previous Labour leader passing away when the party was forming an industrial plan.
The Iranian Petrol crisis which saw fuel costs go through the roof creating massive inflation.
The Yanks turning their backs due to our non involvement in Vietnam.
Union leaders changing sides.
Barbara Castle finding her new plan for workers not getting full cabinet support.
Most of which the Tories implemented.
Yet there was a hell of a lot of good policies implemented during his tenure.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:07 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
shropswolf wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Some would say Labour have been doomed since the 1970s when the country fell hook line and sinker for Reaganomics.


Wilson and his era failed to find the solutions to modernise the country and bring prosperity, which made Thatcherism inevitable.

The current state of the party shows that they have no answers for the 21st century either.


Wilson was unfortunate with many events prior and during his time.
The previous Labour leader passing away when the party was forming an industrial plan.
The Iranian Petrol crisis which saw fuel costs go through the roof creating massive inflation.
The Yanks turning their backs due to our non involvement in Vietnam.
Union leaders changing sides.
Barbara Castle finding her new plan for workers not getting full cabinet support.
Most of which the Tories implemented.
Yet there was a hell of a lot of good policies implemented during his tenure.


Wilson was everything your current mob are not. Rather than a failed academic, Wilson was a brilliant scholar who was a Liberal at Oxford University, as the Labour Party there were controlled by Marxists ( sound familiar ?). When in control of the party, he listened to both sides of any argument, and even achieved consensus with his opposition for some of his policies. He resigned in 1976 as he could see and do nothing about, the rise of fools like Scargill, and the loonies he so disliked in his varsity days.

If he was around today, his puritanical thinking sadly would enrage the woke, but he'd get my vote.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:25 pm 
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suiging wrote:

Wilson was everything your current mob are not. Rather than a failed academic, Wilson was a brilliant scholar who was a Liberal at Oxford University, as the Labour Party there were controlled by Marxists ( sound familiar ?). When in control of the party, he listened to both sides of any argument, and even achieved consensus with his opposition for some of his policies. He resigned in 1976 as he could see and do nothing about, the rise of fools like Scargill, and the loonies he so disliked in his varsity days.

If he was around today, his puritanical thinking sadly would enrage the woke, but he'd get my vote.



Hear, hear.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:04 am 
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Spot on - Wilson was an OUTSTANDING scholar - a brilliant intellect - but also a cunning fox! He never smoked a pipe in private (he was a cigars man) or drank beer. But he needed the 'image' of the common man which at the time was pipe and beer.

My only disagreement would be his reason for leaving.

I understood that he was only too well aware of his sudden declining intellectual powers due to early onset of some form of dementia. He quickly deteriorated and disappeared from public life as - presumably - Alzheimers took its toll.

A sad end to a brilliant career.

And to think current Labour members are choosing between a bunch who seem to prove themselves on having failed most of their GCSEs at school 'but still dun good in the real world'. Even Starmer seems determined to play down his reasonably able hinterland.

Inverted snobbery? I WANT the country to be run by clever people, whatever their politics, not a bunch who don't know their split infinitives from their adverbs or their apostrophes!

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:42 am 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Spot on - Wilson was an OUTSTANDING scholar - a brilliant intellect - but also a cunning fox! He never smoked a pipe in private (he was a cigars man) or drank beer. But he needed the 'image' of the common man which at the time was pipe and beer.

My only disagreement would be his reason for leaving.

I understood that he was only too well aware of his sudden declining intellectual powers due to early onset of some form of dementia. He quickly deteriorated and disappeared from public life as - presumably - Alzheimers took its toll.

A sad end to a brilliant career.

And to think current Labour members are choosing between a bunch who seem to prove themselves on having failed most of their GCSEs at school 'but still dun good in the real world'. Even Starmer seems determined to play down his reasonably able hinterland.

Inverted snobbery? I WANT the country to be run by clever people, whatever their politics, not a bunch who don't know their split infinitives from their adverbs or their apostrophes!


Point taken about his leaving. Some say he knew he couldn't continue in general, others say his failing health and his view of the likes of Scargill coming up with him unable to do anything about it contributed, mute points not taking away from a very clever man, and Labour leader who actually did just that, lead Labour.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:18 am 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Spot on - Wilson was an OUTSTANDING scholar - a brilliant intellect - but also a cunning fox! He never smoked a pipe in private (he was a cigars man) or drank beer. But he needed the 'image' of the common man which at the time was pipe and beer.

My only disagreement would be his reason for leaving.

I understood that he was only too well aware of his sudden declining intellectual powers due to early onset of some form of dementia. He quickly deteriorated and disappeared from public life as - presumably - Alzheimers took its toll.

A sad end to a brilliant career.

And to think current Labour members are choosing between a bunch who seem to prove themselves on having failed most of their GCSEs at school 'but still dun good in the real world'. Even Starmer seems determined to play down his reasonably able hinterland.

Inverted snobbery? I WANT the country to be run by clever people, whatever their politics, not a bunch who don't know their split infinitives from their adverbs or their apostrophes!


The third series of The Crown shows quite beautifully the remarkable relationship Wilson had with the Queen.
The series itself is quite a magnificent piece of television and acting but the performance of Jason Watkins as Wilson is truly brilliant.
Wilson was PM during some of the most turbulent times in British politics, and indeed the Aberfan disaster. I had no idea that Wilson was such an academically gifted man, a man who abrogated his own personal ideals and upbringing for the benefits of socialism for the masses.

It also goes a little further and shows what a complete bellend Ted Heath was so balance restored.

Wilson must be turning in his grave viewing the current malaise of his socialist ideals and the abject shit kickers in the Labour party now.

Note to kk, fuck that picture of Tony Benn off and stick one up of HW, you will feel better.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:50 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:

Inverted snobbery? I WANT the country to be run by clever people, whatever their politics, not a bunch who don't know their split infinitives from their adverbs or their apostrophes!


Does that mean I could become PM if I learn never to split infinitive's nor too talk too bigly?

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:54 pm 
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Left back wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:

Inverted snobbery? I WANT the country to be run by clever people, whatever their politics, not a bunch who don't know their split infinitives from their adverbs or their apostrophes!


Does that mean I could become PM if I learn never to split infinitive's nor too talk too bigly?


I have no idea what a split infinitive is ...I thought it was something to do with Buzz Lightyear.


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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:12 pm 
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davejonesears wrote:
Left back wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:

Inverted snobbery? I WANT the country to be run by clever people, whatever their politics, not a bunch who don't know their split infinitives from their adverbs or their apostrophes!


Does that mean I could become PM if I learn never to split infinitive's nor too talk too bigly?


I have no idea what a split infinitive is ...I thought it was something to do with Buzz Lightyear.


Head and Shoulders cures it apparently....

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:20 pm 
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Left back wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:

Inverted snobbery? I WANT the country to be run by clever people, whatever their politics, not a bunch who don't know their split infinitives from their adverbs or their apostrophes!


Does that mean I could become PM if I learn never to split infinitive's nor too talk too bigly?


Afraid you will have to learn not to put apostrophes in a plural first... (but no doubt it was a wind-up!).

Actually the split infinitive is not 'wrong', it was just a Victorian affectation. However, if 'to boldy go' was good enough for Captain Kirk....

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:33 pm 
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Left back wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:

Inverted snobbery? I WANT the country to be run by clever people, whatever their politics, not a bunch who don't know their split infinitives from their adverbs or their apostrophes!


Does that mean I could become PM if I learn never to split infinitive's nor too talk too bigly?



What sort of injury is a "split infinitive" and what is the expected recovery time..?? :-)

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:53 pm 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
Left back wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:

Inverted snobbery? I WANT the country to be run by clever people, whatever their politics, not a bunch who don't know their split infinitives from their adverbs or their apostrophes!


Does that mean I could become PM if I learn never to split infinitive's nor too talk too bigly?



What sort of injury is a "split infinitive" and what is the expected recovery time..?? :-)


When I was at school it was usually an injury caused by a slap round the head and an hour's recovery time in detention.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:00 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Left back wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:

Inverted snobbery? I WANT the country to be run by clever people, whatever their politics, not a bunch who don't know their split infinitives from their adverbs or their apostrophes!


Does that mean I could become PM if I learn never to split infinitive's nor too talk too bigly?


Afraid you will have to learn not to put apostrophes in a plural first... (but no doubt it was a wind-up!).

Actually the split infinitive is not 'wrong', it was just a Victorian affectation. However, if 'to boldy go' was good enough for Captain Kirk....


I cant' fool you SW. :lol:

That amazing intellectual Mr Trump taught me "bigly" as an adverb. I remember Andrew Gold singing "to never let her slip away" and when I heard it I always pictured my English teacher making him stop and sing it again correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: New Labour Leader.
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:00 am 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Spot on - Wilson was an OUTSTANDING scholar - a brilliant intellect - but also a cunning fox! He never smoked a pipe in private (he was a cigars man) or drank beer. But he needed the 'image' of the common man which at the time was pipe and beer.

My only disagreement would be his reason for leaving.

I understood that he was only too well aware of his sudden declining intellectual powers due to early onset of some form of dementia. He quickly deteriorated and disappeared from public life as - presumably - Alzheimers took its toll.

A sad end to a brilliant career.

And to think current Labour members are choosing between a bunch who seem to prove themselves on having failed most of their GCSEs at school 'but still dun good in the real world'. Even Starmer seems determined to play down his reasonably able hinterland.

Inverted snobbery? I WANT the country to be run by clever people, whatever their politics, not a bunch who don't know their split infinitives from their adverbs or their apostrophes!


As Barbara Castle was the politician who lived longest we can see with her views on New Labour her thoughts that her party had moved to far to the right and had accepted far to much in the way of Market forces.
She as would most of the 1960s, 1970s Labour party be more in tune with the current Labour policies particularly those domestically.

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