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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:13 am 
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I think the difference between Sweden and everyone else is they have more unnecessary deaths. I can't say I disagree that this won't go away, I think eventually we will just have to get out there. However, with a vaccine expected later this year, that won't be so much of a problem. I think Denmark probably handled it the best in terms of economic status, they didn't do what Sweden did, and arguably their economy is a lot healthier.

Here's some statistics

Sweden had 5,802 covid deaths, 574 per million inhabitants

Norway had 262 deaths, 48 per million inhabitants

Finland had 334 deaths, 60 per million inhabitants

Denmark had 621 deaths, 107 per million inhabitants

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:35 pm 
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By and large but not exclusively, the smaller the country and population, the easier it has been to try and deal with Corona Virus at the early stages. But some of these smaller countries are now experiencing second waves and starting to worry a lot. New Zealand was the shining light example but although new infections there are not too high, they are causing crackdowns to be implemented. Countries with high levels of immigrant population have suffered badly so far, USA, UK and France especially. These immigrant populations generally live and work in overcrowded conditions and are are a major factor in the spread of the virus. No media outlet wants to admit this for obvious reasons but it is a known fact and needs addressing even more than it has been to date for everyone's benefit. Also it is now being put out that people in the 20-40 age groups are assisting in the spread by their lack of basic concern and care about spreading the virus and their social grouping habits after lockdown easing. We face a long worrying winter time.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:42 pm 
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I really don't believe in second waves. It's never going away, it just sticks its head up now and again having morphed to keep itself going. If it follows the historical path, each morph is slightly less fatal than the last. It doesn't want to kill you. You can't spread it if you're dead.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:51 am 
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Certainly the number of deaths from the virus around Europe that are being published are far lower than during the initial onset which is promising and I suppose that during a peak holiday period of three months ( June, July and August) that across the continent more infections will be reported that are higher than in the preceding couple of months as people socialise and travel more openly. We are still learning about the virus as we go along, even now and it will be interesting, if not worrying as to how things will pan out as we get into the winter period. As always in life, time will tell.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:04 am 
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So, as we approach winter, and as all the coughs, colds , snuffles materialise.... do we all go and get tested? Will the capacity be there to cope with demand?


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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:15 am 
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desiwulf wrote:
So, as we approach winter, and as all the coughs, colds , snuffles materialise.... do we all go and get tested? Will the capacity be there to cope with demand?



I fear that testing, undoubtedly the key to success with this virus, will also be the catalyst for further knee-jerk idiocy from the government. Test a thousand, you will get X. Test a million you will get Y. The pressure to panic will grow exponentially. Tuther day, England had no deaths from the virus. Hate to think how many were killed crossing the road ? Perhaps with the current climate of insanity, all road-crossing should be banned, just to keep us all safe ?

Work from home and decimate the inner-city economies we cry. Bankrupt all small Landlords !! That'll help the long-term housing shortage. Don't pay your food bill, gas bill, electricity bill, you'll be in trouble . However, you can choose to live for free and make your poor old pensioner, land-lady suffer, and that's alright. Continue to pay age groups with absolutely minimal, infinitesimal chances of being seriously ill to stay at home....the list goes on.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:40 am 
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desiwulf wrote:
So, as we approach winter, and as all the coughs, colds , snuffles materialise.... do we all go and get tested? Will the capacity be there to cope with demand?



A very pertinent question indeed, thousands will panic at the first sign of a normal cold ( blocked nose, sore throat, slight cough, runny nose etc) and will swamp testing centres beyond belief. They'll think that they have the Corona Virus but mostly it will be the usual seasonal onset of such issues so that is another big area of concern for the upcoming winter. Testing Centres will have their most busiest times than up to now, that is almost certain.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:56 am 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
desiwulf wrote:
So, as we approach winter, and as all the coughs, colds , snuffles materialise.... do we all go and get tested? Will the capacity be there to cope with demand?



A very pertinent question indeed, thousands will panic at the first sign of a normal cold ( blocked nose, sore throat, slight cough, runny nose etc) and will swamp testing centres beyond belief. They'll think that they have the Corona Virus but mostly it will be the usual seasonal onset of such issues so that is another big area of concern for the upcoming winter. Testing Centres will have their most busiest times than up to now, that is almost certain.



Totally agree. The virus is not going away. Colds and flus are not going away. People in charge of the response are not accepting this simple, new fact of life. The phrase 'We have to learn to live with it" comes to mind. The bit of that suggests we have to continue to live, seems to be forgotten.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:53 pm 
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I only hope they are gearing up for it now - theres no longer any excuse.

Ensuring enough flu jabs for all vulnerable groups (inc. those over 50) and enough resources to delilver them in a prompt manner - that will be a start.

Making sure Test & Trace truly is working as effectively as possible, and ensuring the integration between local Health Authorities and the NHS/ whatever body is in place is optimised- to control outbreaks.

This includes the application not even sure where we are with that - its all gone v quiet on that front.

Making sure enough PPE is now available and ensuring standard PPE can also be made in this country.

Ensuring all Health staff including Care home have the necessasy resources tests,kits & comms & cntrol mechanisms to do their job properly.

All of the above is acheivable and is a minimum requirement for October.

Anything less is a failure.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:31 pm 
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suiging wrote:
I really don't believe in second waves. It's never going away, it just sticks its head up now and again having morphed to keep itself going. If it follows the historical path, each morph is slightly less fatal than the last. It doesn't want to kill you. You can't spread it if you're dead.


I suppose its the capabilty to control outbreaks thats the real problem.

Other countries are seeing spikes ..is that a second wave, its difficult to define I suppose...but I'd expect anything approaching 30% of the original spike will cause alarm.

Spanish flus second wave was more dangerous than the first- I think, as it came back and started to kill children as well - I think?

I would suggest that as long as it can transmit to someone (or even something else) before the host dies its done its job , the consequnces of it doing that it cant comprehend (in my mind anyway).

I did watch a program a couple of yesra ago that said every time a virus changed in order to be more easily treansmitted it got weaker.

However the issue with this one is of course it's already easy to transmit so it doesn't really need to change to survive.
Unless it needs to be even easier - which if it follows the same path they disucssed in the program should make it less deadly.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:02 pm 
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davejonesears wrote:
I only hope they are gearing up for it now - theres no longer any excuse.

Ensuring enough flu jabs for all vulnerable groups (inc. those over 50) and enough resources to delilver them in a prompt manner - that will be a start.

Making sure Test & Trace truly is working as effectively as possible, and ensuring the integration between local Health Authorities and the NHS/ whatever body is in place is optimised- to control outbreaks.

This includes the application not even sure where we are with that - its all gone v quiet on that front.

Making sure enough PPE is now available and ensuring standard PPE can also be made in this country.

Ensuring all Health staff including Care home have the necessasy resources tests,kits & comms & cntrol mechanisms to do their job properly.

All of the above is acheivable and is a minimum requirement for October.

Anything less is a failure.


I have every faith in our Government. I`m off to stock up on me pasta and bog rolls.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:52 pm 
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back to school....

Mask or no mask?

Silly argument. The mask does not protect YOU, it protects others from you! So nervy parents should make every OTHER kid wear one, not their own!

And whoever thinks that teenagers will take masks on and off (and put in plastic bag & dispose) WITHOUT getting their fingers (which is where the virus will almost certainly lurk!) all over the mouth covering? The risks of infecting yourself by constantly adjusting, fiddling with and taking off and on your mask is FAR greater than not wearing one in the first place! (Just keep washing hands thoroughly with hot soapy water!!)

My advice? Don't wear one. If you are in an identified 'lock-down zone' for a fortnight because of a 'spike' then those schools should be closed OR have EVERYONE wear a mask at ALL times. Simple.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:39 am 
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The number of admissions goes down. The number of deaths almost at the level of those predicted from lightning strikes. The number infected as testing increases exponentially goes up, who'd a thought it ?

Take two steps back, and run the country on the threat that exists, not the politically motivated and media driven hysteria.

Look after properly the old, and the identified to be vulnerable. Get the rest back to school, work, or whatever. You can't wish for yesterday, it's gone. The world pre-Covid is history. The post-Covid world will be different, but it isn't the apocalypse, with hindsight it never was.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:59 am 
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Deaths still in double figures per day. Is that equivalent to lightning??

Agree with the overall sentiment, but overly down-playing the risk doesn't help the argument.

Take personal responsibility for your safety as much as you can:
1. be fitter (obese people greater risk)
2. wash hands properly regularly
3. socially distance where possible
4. wear a mask in confined public spaces
5. get back to normality
6. don't get any older.... (cos old people die)

Sorted.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:13 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Deaths still in double figures per day. Is that equivalent to lightning??

Agree with the overall sentiment, but overly down-playing the risk doesn't help the argument.

Take personal responsibility for your safety as much as you can:
1. be fitter (obese people greater risk)
2. wash hands properly regularly
3. socially distance where possible
4. wear a mask in confined public spaces
5. get back to normality
6. don't get any older.... (cos old people die)

Sorted.


Lightning analogy a tad OTT, but brought on by frustration at the chicken Little response. I think you'll find the older folk are suffering, not because of age itself, but because age brings on in many of the secondary symptoms that cause fatalities.

Totally agree with the he obesity quote. There some extremely fit fat folk as there are fit old folk. Fitness and lung capacity the key.

There are certainly double digit deaths crossing the road. When the woke find out, look out for armed lollipop ladies charged with shooting jay-walkers, for their own good you understand.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:23 pm 
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There is a meme doing the rounds that some up some of the hysteria. It's a picture of some salt, a little bowl of white rum, a small stick and a rock.
A fly lucks the salt. Gets thirsty so drinks the rum. Gets drunk, trips over the stick and bashes it's head in on the rock. One more death due to Covid

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:12 pm 
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I know two people who have died from covid- I know no-one who has ever died from flu.

On a lighter note I see there is a drive to go back to work in the office- even for people who can work from home.

What I want to ask is ...why ...why should you be cajoled to go back into the office when you can work from home perfectly well.

There is no other reason other than our fantistic 'service economy' needs it-
The head of Braclays wants it so the plethora of sandwich shops can continue to pay their rent to the landlords who call the shots..Johnson wants it because the head of Barclays wants it.

Many hoped for a 'green revolution' an readdressing/realisation of work/life balance.

There would still be jobs but the types would change, maybe we could address the inbalance between service jobs and manufacturing/tech jobs- maybe service jobs would be more localised and not centralised.

Maybe offices would become shared spaces on a part time desk basis - but all of that woud take some thought so theres no chance of that happening.

Insterad its back to the same as before ..long crowded journeys into the office and our again , there was a chance to stop this to change.....yeah right fat chance.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:32 pm 
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The work from home mantra will bring misery to many. Plug a computer in and work from home, sure, but where that home is - then becomes the issue. Want an accountant? Try India. Want a computer geek? Asia's the place. Why pay UK wages for someone to sit in their home, if their home can be anywhere in the world?

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:33 pm 
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suiging wrote:
The work from home mantra will bring misery to many. Plug a computer in and work from home, sure, but where that home is - then becomes the issue. Want an accountant? Try India. Want a computer geek? Asia's the place. Why pay UK wages for someone to sit in their home, if their home can be anywhere in the world?


That already happens and has been doing for many years, first of all call centres went abroad, then IT Support was slowly migrated abroad, now the majority of support is done from India.

Many experienced UK Tax paying IT people have been thrown on the scrap heap just for a perception of increased profits.

Those that havent been outsourced are considered (so far) essential by the businesses so for them wfh won't really make a difference so Working from home won't immediately change any plans businesses have to outsource.

In fact it may be the opposite ,if it reduces their costs from renting offices thus increasing profits , and gives their workers a 'pay increase' whch helps the economy (just in a different place), so double bubble.

As I say there was a chance to significantly change how our economy worked - from a centralised service industry to a decentralised tech indiustry same as many other countries.

However that would take thought and vision- something politicians are notably bereft of.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:03 pm 
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Working from home will quickly come to be seen as a 'not-so-great' environment by companies that at present see it as a way of saving on purchase or renting of expensive office space.

Organisations rely for creativity on the sort of spark and chance intercourses that occur around the metaphorical coffee machine.

Francis Crick would NEVER have sorted DNA structure without sitting around shooting the breeze for hours in pubs and coffee shops with a bunch of other folk.

Zoom meetings are ok for transmitting information, but anyone had many? They are desperate! There is precious little interaction or discussion. If there are more than 4 present it is hopeless.

Companies are realising the importance of face to face meeting to truly gauge opinion. Office WILL re-open, and people WILL go back to working there.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:16 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Working from home will quickly come to be seen as a 'not-so-great' environment by companies that at present see it as a way of saving on purchase or renting of expensive office space.

Organisations rely for creativity on the sort of spark and chance intercourses that occur around the metaphorical coffee machine.

Francis Crick would NEVER have sorted DNA structure without sitting around shooting the breeze for hours in pubs and coffee shops with a bunch of other folk.

Zoom meetings are ok for transmitting information, but anyone had many? They are desperate! There is precious little interaction or discussion. If there are more than 4 present it is hopeless.

Companies are realising the importance of face to face meeting to truly gauge opinion. Office WILL re-open, and people WILL go back to working there.


A great many mental health issues are kept in check by social interaction.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:12 pm 
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suiging wrote:
SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Working from home will quickly come to be seen as a 'not-so-great' environment by companies that at present see it as a way of saving on purchase or renting of expensive office space.

Organisations rely for creativity on the sort of spark and chance intercourses that occur around the metaphorical coffee machine.

Francis Crick would NEVER have sorted DNA structure without sitting around shooting the breeze for hours in pubs and coffee shops with a bunch of other folk.

Zoom meetings are ok for transmitting information, but anyone had many? They are desperate! There is precious little interaction or discussion. If there are more than 4 present it is hopeless.

Companies are realising the importance of face to face meeting to truly gauge opinion. Office WILL re-open, and people WILL go back to working there.


A great many mental health issues are kept in check by social interaction.


There is no reason days in the office can't be reduced - if not stopped all together if necessary/wanted.

There is no reason the idea of an office can't be reinvented so that its shared office space for when those projects need that interaction.

I worked in IT for many years for a major bank , they outrsourced plenty , worked from home plenty , the office became boring as no one went in , and if I had to travel hours to get to it I would have left.

I had many discssions with other techies over the phone to resolve issues , the main issue impacting support/projects was communication with some (but not all) off shored colleagues.

I dont agree even now that off shoring now overcomes the extended times certain things now take , nor the loss in tax revenue for the country,but the companies dont gve a fuck about that.

If wfh helps even the balance between onshore and off shore costs then I'm all for it.

If offices reopen in exactly the same way as before that will purely and simply be to keep the 'service industry going' , it wont be for health (mental or otherwise) , social interaction or the intellectual spark of a conversation.

whether folk end up doing it is one thing , but If you believe thats the way forward then you are kidding yourselves , and I don't quite understand why.

For a smaller company maybe yes , but for the large companies, finance etc, in London theres not been a centralised IT model for over ten years.

There is a middle ground between the two as I agree working from home all the while does make you go mad- , I would have local hubs where at least those local people could go in to break the monotomy, Ive done it , and it works.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:35 pm 
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53964322

Chief Supt Simon Belcher from South Wales Police said: "This type of illegal gathering is totally unacceptable and we are aware of the concerns it is causing for the local community.

"It has been estimated there are up to 3,000 people at the gathering who have apparently travelled from across the UK and we are looking at all pieces of legislation as to what action can be undertaken safely.


ehhh what the fuck are you on about looking at all pieces of legislation ...it's illegal ,you can break it up ...get off your arse & do your fucking job.

Too busy taking the knee and posing for selfies- to show how compationate a force they are- what an absolute joke.

and yes I know the force has been cut , but give em the overtime Im sure theres still enough to break it up...even if it has to done 'safely' :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:25 pm 
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With a surname of Belcher, how apt that he should bring that up..:-)

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:50 am 
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As a little window into the evolution and effect of the virus, it would be interesting to know how many of the people infected on the recent Greek flight have been hospitalised, and how many of them were actually ill?

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:56 am 
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suiging wrote:
As a little window into the evolution and effect of the virus, it would be interesting to know how many of the people infected on the recent Greek flight have been hospitalised, and how many of them were actually ill?



Yes, I agree that any stats from that flight and subsequent treatment / illness severity would be most interesting and also informative in an educational way about this virus.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:27 pm 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
suiging wrote:
As a little window into the evolution and effect of the virus, it would be interesting to know how many of the people infected on the recent Greek flight have been hospitalised, and how many of them were actually ill?



Yes, I agree that any stats from that flight and subsequent treatment / illness severity would be most interesting and also informative in an educational way about this virus.


And how many are self isolating.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:55 am 
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desiwulf wrote:
gladbachwolf wrote:
suiging wrote:
As a little window into the evolution and effect of the virus, it would be interesting to know how many of the people infected on the recent Greek flight have been hospitalised, and how many of them were actually ill?



Yes, I agree that any stats from that flight and subsequent treatment / illness severity would be most interesting and also informative in an educational way about this virus.


And how many are self isolating.


I would wager that the persons supposedly infected on that flight far and away exceed the number of persons responsible for enforcing their isolation.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:14 am 
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How do they enforce such isolation? Daily visits or phone calls..?? I suspect that they rely on people "doing the right thing the British way"...which today is carte blanche to do what you want..ah well.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:33 am 
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gladbachwolf wrote:
How do they enforce such isolation? Daily visits or phone calls..?? I suspect that they rely on people "doing the right thing the British way"...which today is carte blanche to do what you want..ah well.


A 'Constable' is bestowed with a power of detention, arrest, and a power of entry under legislation The Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020.
The powers and punishments are all there to see, and they are quite severe in my opinion, however, the application of those powers only allow the Police to use them.
As there are no officers available, or training how to understand and use those powers they are in fact useless and rely upon your own moral obligations which in todays society rarely exist.

Scenario.. PC World knocks on Mr Jones's door after he has been ordered to self isolate after his flight from Zante.
PC World is equipped with the scantest details of who he is dealing with and what he can do if in fact Mr Jones ay playing ball.
Knock knock... no answer
Knock Knock... no anwer.
Knock fuckin knock knock knock... No answer.

PC World to control over.

Go ahead over.

I am at 23 Acacia Avenue the home of Mr Jones and despite numerous knocks he is not answering can I put the door in over.

Thats a negative PC World, to do that we would have to despatch a number of units with the correct method of entry equipment and training in the use of, plus you would have to stay at the property waiting for secure boarding up to prevent any civil litigation for damage and or loss over.

What a load of bollocks it all is then over.

Yes, please resume as we have numerous jobs for you over.

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