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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:46 am 
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suiging wrote:
THE BIG BAD WOLF wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
I would be interested to know what B. Johnsons strengths are?


Entertaining. Better Mayor of London than Sadiq Khan has been. I suspect he will in the end disappoint and in due the course the Conservative Party will deservedly implode, along with the Labour Party.


Yep, politics in the UK on the way to follow the German model of coalition after coalition. That results in populist politics, and governance by consensus. Never works. Difficult decisions on many issues need addressing in this country, hard enough getting anything through our self-interested parliament as it is, without an even more, untidy bunch with constantly conflicting views, actually in charge.


How can you say the German model of government "never works" when it has become the most successful economy in all of Europe using precisely this model?

Actually, the populist politics in Germany are performed by those outside of government i.e. the AFD.

The fact that the poison is removed from the major parties bating one another actually creates the circumstances in which difficult decisions can in fact be taken as not every policy is constructed on the basis of "will this win us the next election?".

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:09 pm 
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German economy is officially in recession. The populist driven immigration policies have nurtured the rise of the right and turned middle Germany away from mainstream politics. You think that works?

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:01 pm 
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Round 3 Results

Johnson 143
Hunt 54
Gove 51
Stewart 27
Javid 38

OUT Stewart

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:26 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Round 3 Results

Johnson 143
Hunt 54
Gove 51
Stewart 27
Javid 38

OUT Stewart


Oh dear.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:50 pm 
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suiging wrote:
German economy is officially in recession. The populist driven immigration policies have nurtured the rise of the right and turned middle Germany away from mainstream politics. You think that works?


You stated it "never works". If you think a country is able to evade entering recession for eternity I wonder what you must think of 99% of countries on this planet or what your old economics teacher must think of you.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:48 am 
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davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Round 3 Results

Johnson 143
Hunt 54
Gove 51
Stewart 27
Javid 38

OUT Stewart


Oh dear.


So out of the four who is the least worse option.

Anyone not on the far right would look at Javid and Gove I presume.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:31 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Round 3 Results

Johnson 143
Hunt 54
Gove 51
Stewart 27
Javid 38

OUT Stewart


Oh dear.


So out of the four who is the least worse option.

Anyone not on the far right would look at Javid and Gove I presume.


It's all a foregone conclusion and has been since the start.

The Tories who were whispering about "keeping Boris off the ballot" for years have bricked it in the face of Farage. Once he was on the final ballot for the membership, nobody else had any chance.

Last week on TV; Michael Portillo, who has spent years deriding Johnson as inept, said he was exactly what the party needed now and he was pleased to was going to become leader(!).

The interest only starts once he is in office, PM of a hung parliament, with no plan except to stamp his feet harder and shout louder than his predecessor.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:33 am 
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Agreed. As an aside, Portillo would get my vote very time if he came back to politics. However, back to the buffoon, sometimes stamping your feet and shouting is what politics needs. The cold, easily led, soulless May, was never going to get anyone on her side. Who knows, charisma may have its day. It is certain that he will pick up more voters than May ever could in the next election ( albeit, that might not be many ).

The remaining few are threatening to boycott the BBC. I could not understand why they went for any debate in the first place. The public get no vote in the outcome, and the questions were always going to be loaded against them, as just about every media presenter left alive is left of center, and can't help themselves in trying to belittle anyone who doesn't love Jeremy or wears a kaftan .

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:00 am 
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suiging wrote:
Agreed. As an aside, Portillo would get my vote very time if he came back to politics. However, back to the buffoon, sometimes stamping your feet and shouting is what politics needs. The cold, easily led, soulless May, was never going to get anyone on her side. Who knows, charisma may have its day. It is certain that he will pick up more voters than May ever could in the next election ( albeit, that might not be many ).

The remaining few are threatening to boycott the BBC. I could not understand why they went for any debate in the first place. The public get no vote in the outcome, and the questions were always going to be loaded against them, as just about every media presenter left alive is left of center, and can't help themselves in trying to belittle anyone who doesn't love Jeremy or wears a kaftan .


May in the next election would obviously have been toxic but I'm unconvinced Johnson would bring in as many votes as May did last time unless Farage is willing to do a deal. May actually got more votes than any Tory since Major's shock win in 92.

I foresee a total lack of enthusiasm for the main parties next time out and a hung parliament all over again. The Tories may squeak a majority though if Farage plays nice and the expected mass exit of Labour voters to the Lib Dems comes to pass.

I didn't plan to watch these daft debates but did actually stumble upon the last 15 minutes of it while flicking through the channels.

First thing was how decidedly "naff" it all looked. The candidates resembled 5 orangutans squatting on bad plastic furniture at a street cafe. Couldn't they have stood behind lecterns to at least look less ridiculous visually while saying ridiculous things?

Then the concept: "here's Sheila, she's 18 years old, she lives in Scotland and therefore has absolutely no fucking likelihood to ever vote Tory at an election, but she wants to ask how you can win her vote on ... climate change?"

"Well, I've got some great environmental policies for the future"

"Well, I think climate change is very important, do you though?"

"Yes, I also think it's important"

"Well, I'd be keen to implement some of those great environmental policies my fellow candidate mentioned"

"So Sheila, will you be voting Tory next time?"

"No"

"Thank you for filling 15 minutes of primetime air time, unfortunately we've run out of time before we could get on to the national debt, the lack of affordable housing and what living standards you would be willing to sacrifice in return for a trade deal with Donald Trump. Good night"

Who planned this thing?

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:18 pm 
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I didn't watch any of it as I couldn't be arsed. However, I've seen some reports about the BBC selecting anti Tory people to ask questions and also setting up the studio to make them all uncomfortable. Just think how bad they could have made it if they weren't so biased in favour of the Tories as KK keeps banging on about interminably.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:00 pm 
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I never thought I would end up in a situation where I want Michael Gove to be the next Prime Minister.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:52 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
I never thought I would end up in a situation where I want Michael Gove to be the next Prime Minister.


Surely when Gove and Johnson prominently led the Brexit campaign and you voted out to help give Gove that victory because you wanted Cameron to go as PM, you must have envisioned that either Gove or Johnson would become PM?

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:54 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
I never thought I would end up in a situation where I want Michael Gove to be the next Prime Minister.


I'd stick to predicting football if I was you as your political form is zero.

Although I do think that drug use aside Gove is more worthy than Hunt of that last stage.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:55 am 
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davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
I never thought I would end up in a situation where I want Michael Gove to be the next Prime Minister.


I'd stick to predicting football if I was you as your political form is zero.

Although I do think that drug use aside Gove is more worthy than Hunt of that last stage.


Strange isn't it that my views on what makes a political leader fails to align itself with Tory MPs.
I guess my vote is not going their way. Again.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:36 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Strange isn't it that my views on what makes a political leader fails to align itself with Tory MPs.
I guess my vote is not going their way. Again.


What exactly are your views on what makes a political leader - other than that they must not be Tories.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:41 am 
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Brecon and Radnorshire
10,005 constituents have signed a petition of recall. Conservative MP Chris Davies has been removed. A by-election will now be held.

Early test for the new boy.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:43 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Brecon and Radnorshire
10,005 constituents have signed a petition of recall. Conservative MP Chris Davies has been removed. A by-election will now be held.

Early test for the new boy.


A similar test for your guy sorry girl in the recent Peterborough by election where your candidate won...just.

According to The Times:

"it now appears Tariq Mahmood not only campaigned with the party’s candidate in the by-election but also was called the mastermind by activists.
he played a far greater role in Labour’s narrow by-election victory in Peterborough this month than the party has admitted."


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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:40 am 
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davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Brecon and Radnorshire
10,005 constituents have signed a petition of recall. Conservative MP Chris Davies has been removed. A by-election will now be held.

Early test for the new boy.


A similar test for your guy sorry girl in the recent Peterborough by election where your candidate won...just.

According to The Times:

"it now appears Tariq Mahmood not only campaigned with the party’s candidate in the by-election but also was called the mastermind by activists.
he played a far greater role in Labour’s narrow by-election victory in Peterborough this month than the party has admitted."


If Johnson beats the Lib Dems convincingly in that by-election perhaps he will go to the country in the hope he could win an overall majority in the house.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:09 pm 
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Boris will become the next Tory leader and next PM, and he will bring embarrassment on himself, his party, and his country..the man is a fool.

Hopefully his personal life implodes, before he gets to No. 10

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:50 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Brecon and Radnorshire
10,005 constituents have signed a petition of recall. Conservative MP Chris Davies has been removed. A by-election will now be held.

Early test for the new boy.


A similar test for your guy sorry girl in the recent Peterborough by election where your candidate won...just.

According to The Times:

"it now appears Tariq Mahmood not only campaigned with the party’s candidate in the by-election but also was called the mastermind by activists.
he played a far greater role in Labour’s narrow by-election victory in Peterborough this month than the party has admitted."


If Johnson beats the Lib Dems convincingly in that by-election perhaps he will go to the country in the hope he could win an overall majority in the house.


But what's your opinion on the inference from The Times that maybe the result was interfered with by a Labour party activist that has form In this area.

Are you concerned that democracy may yet again be usurped , do you think it's lies , or do you not care as it's put Labour in the seat?


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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:07 am 
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Brecon and Radnorshire
10,005 constituents have signed a petition of recall. Conservative MP Chris Davies has been removed. A by-election will now be held.

Early test for the new boy.[/quote]

A similar test for your guy sorry girl in the recent Peterborough by election where your candidate won...just.

According to The Times:

"it now appears Tariq Mahmood not only campaigned with the party’s candidate in the by-election but also was called the mastermind by activists.
he played a far greater role in Labour’s narrow by-election victory in Peterborough this month than the party has admitted."[/quote]

If Johnson beats the Lib Dems convincingly in that by-election perhaps he will go to the country in the hope he could win an overall majority in the house.[/quote]

But what's your opinion on the inference from The Times that maybe the result was interfered with by a Labour party activist that has form In this area.

Are you concerned that democracy may yet again be usurped , do you think it's lies , or do you not care as it's put Labour in the seat?[/quote]

As I understand it, each party in elections has representatives who have the capacity to check and question any vote they deem unacceptable.
With the numbers as they are in the house I would imagine the Tories would have been at maximum numbers checking everything possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:31 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
Brecon and Radnorshire
10,005 constituents have signed a petition of recall. Conservative MP Chris Davies has been removed. A by-election will now be held.

Early test for the new boy.


A similar test for your guy sorry girl in the recent Peterborough by election where your candidate won...just.

According to The Times:

"it now appears Tariq Mahmood not only campaigned with the party’s candidate in the by-election but also was called the mastermind by activists.
he played a far greater role in Labour’s narrow by-election victory in Peterborough this month than the party has admitted."[/quote]

If Johnson beats the Lib Dems convincingly in that by-election perhaps he will go to the country in the hope he could win an overall majority in the house.[/quote]

But what's your opinion on the inference from The Times that maybe the result was interfered with by a Labour party activist that has form In this area.

Are you concerned that democracy may yet again be usurped , do you think it's lies , or do you not care as it's put Labour in the seat?[/quote]

As I understand it, each party in elections has representatives who have the capacity to check and question any vote they deem unacceptable.
With the numbers as they are in the house I would imagine the Tories would have been at maximum numbers checking everything possible.[/quote]

You must be a politician Knocker with your ability to deflect and not answer a question.

However I think you are saying you don't care if fraud has occured , as all's fair in love and war so cheating is OK , as long as you can get away with it ...and it's Labour doing the cheating of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:49 am 
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davejonesears wrote:
knocker knowles wrote:
Brecon and Radnorshire
10,005 constituents have signed a petition of recall. Conservative MP Chris Davies has been removed. A by-election will now be held.

Early test for the new boy.


A similar test for your guy sorry girl in the recent Peterborough by election where your candidate won...just.

According to The Times:

"it now appears Tariq Mahmood not only campaigned with the party’s candidate in the by-election but also was called the mastermind by activists.
he played a far greater role in Labour’s narrow by-election victory in Peterborough this month than the party has admitted."


If Johnson beats the Lib Dems convincingly in that by-election perhaps he will go to the country in the hope he could win an overall majority in the house.[/quote]

But what's your opinion on the inference from The Times that maybe the result was interfered with by a Labour party activist that has form In this area.

Are you concerned that democracy may yet again be usurped , do you think it's lies , or do you not care as it's put Labour in the seat?[/quote]

As I understand it, each party in elections has representatives who have the capacity to check and question any vote they deem unacceptable.
With the numbers as they are in the house I would imagine the Tories would have been at maximum numbers checking everything possible.[/quote]

You must be a politician Knocker with your ability to deflect and not answer a question.

However I think you are saying you don't care if fraud has occured , as all's fair in love and war so cheating is OK , as long as you can get away with it ...and it's Labour doing the cheating of course.[/quote]
No, I thought your interpretation of the Times wasn't quite right, and that the Tories would be all over any wrong doing because of the numbers within the house.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:34 pm 
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knocker knowles wrote:
No, I thought your interpretation of the Times wasn't quite right, and that the Tories would be all over any wrong doing because of the numbers within the house.


Trying to be cute again Knocker when I believe you know full well what was meant. The left wing media including the BBC have not made a big issue of it here leaving it hanging as an inference whereas if the Tories had been involved there would accusations of vote rigging all over the place.

Postal voting was a significant factor in this result and you are well aware that it is extremely difficult to monitor what pressure was put upon the individuals whose votes were sent in. A thousand Tories at the count would not have been able to monitor that.

So once again what's your opinion on the inference from The Times that maybe the result was interfered with by a Labour party activist that has form In this area?

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:57 am 
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If we look at Johnson and Trump as examples of ready cheats we do see a pattern of voters who take no notice.
That's a huge concern that we don't hold some people accountable while looking for the slightest blemish with others.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:45 am 
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knocker knowles wrote:
If we look at Johnson and Trump as examples of ready cheats we do see a pattern of voters who take no notice.
That's a huge concern that we don't hold some people accountable while looking for the slightest blemish with others.


The biggest concern for me is that people like yourself cannot be objective and only look at one side of the coin. Boris has taken a pasting this weekend but you don't want to recognise that.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:58 pm 
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... and hopefully Boris will take a good few more 'pastings'. My only concern is that we will be left with another Jeremy as leader - and he seems just as scary as the other one....

Strikes me Conservative Party members are going to be between a rock and a hard place!

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:14 am 
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Johnson's greatest quality is ignoring all around you in the hope it goes away.
You just don't know what he will do next

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:05 pm 
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Not sure I would describe this as a 'quality'! Seems to me it is the behaviour of a small child....

I just hope having listened to Boris in the last couple of days, many MPs are beginning to realise they have backed THE WRONG MAN. Boris clearly has no grasp of detail ... or indeed of reality.

He is a fantasist. If he is elected, some hope we are entering Wonderland; I suspect we are more likely to have entered the wardrobe ... and closed the door behind us.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Tory Leader?
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:23 pm 
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SilverstoneWolf wrote:
Not sure I would describe this as a 'quality'! Seems to me it is the behaviour of a small child....

I just hope having listened to Boris in the last couple of days, many MPs are beginning to realise they have backed THE WRONG MAN. Boris clearly has no grasp of detail ... or indeed of reality.

He is a fantasist. If he is elected, some hope we are entering Wonderland; I suspect we are more likely to have entered the wardrobe ... and closed the door behind us.



The only hope is he does a Ronnie Reagan. Cowboy who knew his limitations, so surrounded himself with quality, whom he left alone to get on with it. I did say....hope.

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